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On 16/10/16 10:43 PM, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote: |
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> On Sunday, October 16, 2016 9:19:25 PM EDT Ian Stakenvicius wrote: |
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>> |
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>> *IF* we were going to make use of upstream vs gentoo-generated binary |
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>> packages in the tree, they *WOULD* block one-another as they would |
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>> collide file-wise at least partially if not completely. So there |
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>> wouldn't be any testing between the two variants on the same installed |
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>> system. |
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> |
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> That was not an argument I was initially making as justification, but via |
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> slotting and changing names of binaries and/or paths it could be done. |
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> |
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> It is in part why systems like eselect exist to switch between |
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> implementations. In Java's case there is a wrapper around all binaries that is |
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> called, which handles which ones is used. run-java-tool.bash. In addition to |
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> things like java-cpnfig etc. |
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> |
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> Also why there is gcc-config, binutils-config, etc. Part of the beauty of Gentoo |
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> is installing things that collide, and switching between them for testing. |
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> |
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>>> Maybe the upstream binary runs better, does not crash, etc. Or the Gentoo |
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>>> one does. If the Gentoo one is better, it could be used to get a |
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>>> reluctant upstream to make changes. If worse could be used to help figure |
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>>> out where its going wrong. |
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>> |
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>> OK, so here's how things *actually work* in the gentoo repo: |
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> |
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> Because I need such an explanation? I think it could be a little less harsh |
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> no? |
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> |
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>> #1, binary packages aren't made unless there's a really good reason |
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>> for them -- the primary one being that there isn't any other option |
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>> provided by upstream. |
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> |
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> Is that a mandated policy? There are ebuilds in tree that are not that way. |
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> |
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>> #2, if there is a binary package then the only reason why a gentoo dev |
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>> would roll it instead of using upstream's version is because the |
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>> upstream one fails hard or has too many bugs, security |
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>> vulnerabilities, whatever. This is as much done on a per-version |
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>> basis within a package as it is on a per-package one. |
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> |
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> There is a 3rd case, where the package is to complex to package from source. |
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> Things like jenkins-bin, and there are others... jenkins can be packaged from |
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> source, as some others can be. If they were -sbin, maybe more would be aware |
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> and try to package from source vs use as binary because it is to hard to |
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> package from source. |
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> |
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>> All of this discussion is centered around trying to bring convention |
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>> to a problem that simply doesn't exist. |
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> |
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> Maybe you are just not aware. Which if the packages were required to be named, |
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> say -sbin a binary that is a from source package, just not packaged you would |
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> be aware. |
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> |
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> They exist, go look! Also seems to be growing. |
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> |
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>> Also, if the idea here is to |
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>> open the door for a flood of gentoo-dev-rolled *-bin packages in the |
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>> gentoo repo for end-user convenience, |
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> |
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> No that is not the case, and that is done in extreme limited case. I am not |
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> pushing for more binary packages by any means. It would simply be to |
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> differentiate, so anyone knows by file name what they are getting, from |
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> upstream or from Gentoo. |
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> |
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>> then we should similarly stop |
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>> this discussion right now too. How about, instead, you could focus on |
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>> setting up two (additional) repos -- one containing gentoo-built |
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>> binary packages, another containing upstream-only packages. |
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> |
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> That is not my goal. I am trying to bring to attention -bin packages in tree. |
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> -sbin packages should draw attention to get people to package them from |
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> source. |
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> |
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>> That way |
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>> it'll be very obvious to end-users what they'll be using because |
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>> they'll know exactly based on where it comes from. |
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> |
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> This is an issue of things already in tree, and packages being added in tree, |
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> in Gentoo's repo. Which I obviously cannot do so its not my work. |
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> |
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>> It'll also be very |
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>> easy for end-users to control which one is used, just by choosing |
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>> which repo it comes from. AND, it'll keep them from polluting the |
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>> main gentoo repo too. |
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> |
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> It is already polluted, seems you are unaware, but now you know. |
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> |
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> Likely wasn't intentional but came across VERY hostile, and completely missing |
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> the mark and point. |
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> |
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|
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It wasn't meant to be hostile but yes my patience was lacking and I |
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apologize. |
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|
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I agree, there are a number of binary packages in the tree already and |
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fortunately most of them have a -bin in their name despite this not |
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being any formal requirement. There is also no particular policy that |
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I am aware of for ensuring packages are designed to be built from |
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source first and foremost -- however it doesn't make much sense to |
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have a source-based distro full of precompiled binaries and so I do |
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believe pretty well every developer strives to make this so whenever |
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possible, given that's sort of our purpose here. |