Gentoo Archives: gentoo-dev

From: Kumba <kumba@g.o>
To: gentoo-dev@l.g.o
Subject: Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes
Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 02:05:11
In Reply to: [gentoo-dev] ML changes by Mike Doty
1 Mike Doty wrote:
2 > All-
3 >
4 > We're going to change the -dev mailing list from completely open to where
5 > only devs can post, but any dev could moderate a non-dev post. devs who
6 > moderate in bad posts will be subject to moderation themselves. in addition
7 > the gentoo-project list will be created to take over what -dev frequently
8 > becomes. there is no requirement to be on this new list.
9 >
10 > This will probably remove the need for -core(everything gets leaked out
11 > anyway) but that's a path to cross later.
12 >
13 > We're voting on this next council meeting so if you have input, now would be
14 > the time.
17 Hmm, given that I'm the one who planted the seed for -project, I have to wonder
18 if the seed has grown in a way that might be useful. Or if it has merely become
19 a weed now, and should be pulled from the garden.
21 Here's what my thinking was when I put out the initial e-mail calling for
22 -project, including thoughts now on how they should be laid out now:
24 - I envisioned three mailing lists, essentially:
25 * core
26 * dev
27 * project
29 - core: private, dev-only mailing list for internal discussion
31 * Possibility: becomes read-only to the public after
32 a set time limit, possibly 1, 2, 4, or 6 months.
33 Certain messages and threads could be marked (via
34 some feature, for example) to remain permanently
35 private, and thus would never be readable by the
36 public. This policy would NOT apply retroactively.
39 - dev: open, dev and user mailing list for technical discussions about
40 the gentoo project. Topics would include package
41 addition/removal/masking announcements, EAPI discussions,
42 package development questions/inquires (i.e., from users,
43 but NOT help -- gentoo-user exists for that).
45 * Possibility: Package changes, such as moves,
46 deletions, additions, and so forth could also be
47 routed automatically to a -dev-announce ML, possibly
48 by prefixing the subject field with "[ANNOUNCEMENT]:"
49 (This prefix, would of course, be stripped by the
50 automatic mailer before posting to -dev-announce).
52 * Possibility: topics could also include developer
53 recruitment and developer departure emails. However,
54 these may need to be sparse and impersonal (almost
55 machine-like) where-in it may be announced who joined
56 (First/Last name, developer name, IRC handle, etc..),
57 herd they'll be joining, and duties they'll perform,
58 including packages they may be maintaining. These can
59 also be routed to a -dev-announce ML.
62 - project: open, dev and user mailing list for non-technical discussions
63 of the gentoo project. Topics can include pretty much
64 anything non-technical, including topics with high
65 flammability content, but it would be advised that people
66 maintain their composure and at least try to be respectful of
67 other developer and user viewpoints. One may not have to
68 agree, but one should at least give respect.
70 * Possibility: Automated greeting e-mail sent to people
71 who sign up to the list reminding them to conduct
72 themselves accordingly. Overall, the list should
73 moderate itself, because most of us are adults after
74 all. Those who maintain a track record of NOT
75 moderating themselves, could be forced off the list
76 (after discussion/inquiry/vote) by some responsible
77 party (which I won't attempt to detail any further as
78 to whom this party should/should not be).
82 Moderation just doesn't sit very well with me. One, it's got an overhead
83 burden, and likely, most devs will ignore the queued messages. Those with
84 enough idle curiosity might take a peek at them, but by and large, I think this
85 puts up barriers for some potential future great idea to come along and get
86 quietly shuffled away into /dev/null.
88 Two, wayward devs and users who post the wrong message to the wrong list can be
89 pointed in the right direction with a simple reminder that takes all of 2mins to
90 compose. I see it done all the time for the types that try emailing
91 "unsubscribe" to an ML. In the event they continue, then they can be blocked
92 for a time.
94 Basically, moderation is a tool to me, a tool that should be used sparingly.
95 Not used as a blanket cover, with the occasional someone lifting up that blanket
96 to peek outside (save that for the monster under the bed). That said, however,
97 I don't think we should totally dismiss the idea of blanket moderation.
99 Rather, I think we should first implement -project, put out enough information
100 to get people to use it, and watch it for a few months. By and large, we may
101 discover that simply giving another list for the non-technical discussions may
102 fix the problems on -dev, and moderation won't be needed on either list. If, on
103 the other hand, problems still arise on -dev that -project did not address (or
104 may've been potentially created by -project's creation), then we can revisit the
105 option of blanket moderation then.
107 Simply put: One Step At A Time.
111 Cheers,
113 --Kumba
115 --
116 Gentoo/MIPS Team Lead
118 "Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands
119 do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere." --Elrond
120 --
121 gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list


Subject Author
Re: [gentoo-dev] ML changes Kevin Lacquement <kevin@××××××.com>