Re: [gentoo-dev] Mailing list moderation and community openness

[kuzetsa]

On 03/26/2018 09:26 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 26, 2018 at 9:19 PM, kuzetsa <kuzetsa@×××××.com> wrote:
>> On 03/20/2018 08:08 PM, Rich Freeman wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Actually, I think it is more of a technical constraint.  It is
>>> basically impossible to blacklist somebody on a mailing list, since
>>> all they need to do is roll up a new email address.
>>>
>>> I can think of various arguments for whitelisting or not whitelisting,
>>> but it seems silly to blacklist.
>>>
>>
>> require active stewardship (moderation, blacklisting, etc.)
>>
>> entry barriers to participation (default deny / require whitelist)
>>
>> if there are limitations on free speech, someone has to bear the burden.
>> for gentoo to have list moderation (blacklist approach) which isn't
>> dysfunctional, the main barrier to resources will be the human resources
>> end of things, not technical constraints. The tools themselves are easy
>> enough to use, but people who are willing and able to use them, and with
>> a clear guideline for how it needs done is a comrel issue which the
>> foundation needs to sort out.
>>
>
> List moderation isn't the same as blacklisting.  With moderation
> you're effectively whitelisting because the first post anybody makes
> would be held for moderation, and depending on the approach you could
> moderate everything.
>
> If you allowed new subscribers to post without being held for
> moderation, then the issues I spoke of would still apply, no matter
> how much manpower you threw at it.
>

I think this may be a misunderstanding? no? there might be some mailing
list jargon term: "moderation" which I was unaware of:

I was more referring to how IRC chatrooms have an op, forums have
moderators which DO NOT screen individual posts, etc. I think I know of
the other version, and it might be analogous to the mechanism you meant?

for example: websites which hold back all comments which are posted
anonymously (non-trusted users) until a moderator can approve it.

I've never used mailing list software which has that feature (I think
that may be what you're referring to) - I mostly meant someone (or a
team) with the specific duty to hold people accountable for their posts
(since the list is public-facing, this should include @gentoo.org devs
too because it sets a weird precedent to have disparate enforcement)

specifically - I was referring to persons (staff) who are moderators.

(active stewardship to check for problems which need addressed)

I think the mechanism you describes sounds like some sort of greylist /
tiered version of default deny or something like that. Interesting.

the "require whitelist / default deny" version of having a closed list
seems the same - expecting users to contact a dev to relay messages, or
go through the dubiously [un]documented process of getting whitelisted.

unless that process has a standardized format, it seems worse than the
greylist because individual developers have the autonomy to [not]
sponsor people for whitelist, or approve posting on a user's behalf. the
lack of transparency for the process is a concern, I mean.