Re: [gentoo-dev] Re: Re: Re: Re: bootstrapping since gcc 3.4 is stable

[Alec Warner]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

MIkey wrote:
>
>>As for the stage 1 problems you described, this is exactly what i
>>already told you in the same thread. Supporting stage 1 costs extra
>>resources, this thread is a perfect example of it.
>
>
> And this is the primary point I am arguing.  I keep hearing it, over and
> over.  My testing leads me to a much different conclusion, I offered
> details describing why I reached my conclusions.  It is the developers that
> decided to stop supporting the stage1 installation method, without asking
> users.  I am asking you all to justify that decision, preferrably with
> facts.  I am claiming that that the stage1 installation method is in fact
> much easier, quicker, cleaner, and more dependable.  I have still not heard
> a reasonable argument to refute that basic assertion.  I have heard vague
> claims but no quantification.
>
> I even went as far as posting patches to fix some of the major bugs that
> have gone unnoticed for, how long?  Which is, in effect, me offering
> solutions.  I have also posted proposals with patches for simple,
> incremental changes in portage that would make gentoo more palatable in an
> "enterprise" environment.
>
> So far it has been a fairly fruitless endeavor...
>

Maybe you think fixing a circular dep is easy, I know I do.  But when
Joe Shmoe think it's OMG U63r 1337 to install gentoo using a stage1
because it makes his system so awesomely fast ( hence, The Conrad
install on the forums, heh ;) ) and he has no ****ing clue how any of
this crap works, and you tell him to fix the circular deps.  He isn't,
he is going to file a bug, which will be marked WONTFIX.  We know there
are circular deps, it's unavoidable in many situations.

The problem with a stage1 as *I* see it, is it that it's a grab-bag
system.  A half-built system that some user, even following the official
docs, can fuck up in a myriad of ways, just by turning on use flags.
USE flags that that enable things that cause dep circles, enabling
things that cause other things to not compile because the stage1 ISN'T a
full system.  Our deptrees aren't complete, they make assumptions about
the current system, and those assumptions generally are not true on a
stage1 or stage2 system.

There is no way around this, in my reckoning, without giving the user a
complete system to start with.  Then they can't trigger silly ass
circular deps, because guess what, the base system is already installed!
  If openSSL depends on perl and perl depends on openSSL, who cares,
they are both installed, not a problem!

- -Alec Warner (antarus)
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.2 (GNU/Linux)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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=xbGa
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-- 
gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list