Re: [gentoo-dev] [RFC] Should we switch IRC client defaults off Freenode?

[Thomas Deutschmann]

On 2021-06-16 11:13, Michał Górny wrote:
> 1. Should we be proactively changing the default network in IRC clients
> (provided they have one) from Freenode to Libera.chat?
>
> 1a. If yes, then should we also make a change if clients default to
> network other than Freenode?

Adding *our* network in case Libera.chat is missing, is one thing. Like 
adding branding for Gentoo.

But imagine the project behind the IRC client is located on EFnet and 
therefore they are defaulting their client to EFnet, we shouldn't mess 
with that because of the Freenode drama. There should be a separate 
discussion if we should add Gentoo branding by default to *every* 
package where possible in which case we can think about it.


> 2. Should we be proactively *removing* Freenode from the network list
> in IRC clients (provided they have one)?

No. Don't become part of a cancel culture where you disagree with 
someone and start to fight your enemy. We moved and are done with 
freenode. Gentoo is about choices. Our users should therefore be able to 
decide on their own. No need to make it harder to connect to a network 
we moved away from. And keep in mind: *Not* everyone has moved away from 
freenode, that's also part of the truth. And we shouldn't judge projects 
still located on freenode.


> 2a. Should we be adding Libera.chat to the list even if we do not remove
> Freenode?

See 1.


> Quick recap for people that haven't been following the news or got
> confused in the lots of data:
>
> 1. Freenode was sold in 2017 to some guy who apparently wasn't supposed
> to interfere with its operations.
>
> 2. In 2021, the guy actively started to interfere, then formed a one-man
> Board and demanded full compliance.

The problem with a summary like that is, that you only present one view. 
I.e. the view of the "winner" (history is written by the victors). But 
part of the drama is that freenode owner said he was forced to take 
actions for legal reasons (new owner is held liable for whatever his 
staff is doing) after former staff refused to cooperate.


> 5. New Freenode staff (including some disreputable types) went angry
> about this and started automated reclamation of channels that indicated
> move to another network (including some channels that didn't because
> they failed at grep).

You could also have a different view on that: We (like many others) 
started to violate their TOS. It does not matter whether or not they 
created these TOS retrospectively: It's a proprietary/privately owned 
service. They can do whatever they like whenever they like. And they 
just did that. No question, an unpleasant move from our POV. But I know 
that many people don't like to hear or believe for some reasons that 
this could never happen to other services -- but this can happen at any 
time to our presence at Github and even what happened with freenode 
could happen with Libera.chat again. Both are proprietary and in the end 
privately owned. They can change rules without asking us and without 
even considering our interests.


> Just imagine unknowing Gentoo users having their systems compromised
> through advice from trolls pretending to be Gentoo developers.

True. But this can happen wherever people talk about Gentoo. Even in our 
forums, mailing lists or official IRC channels. I would recommend 
everyone to relax a little bit. There will always be some imperfect 
situations like that we cannot control. We shouldn't start to overreact. 
Like we say, "Gentoo is about choice", have some faith in our users to 
deal with that.

Gentoo is done with freenode, we migrated away. There is no need for us 
take additional actions against freenode.


-- 
Regards,
Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer
fpr: C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D 74A5