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On 18-Sep 02:27, Ned Ludd wrote: |
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> Alex know I love and respect your opinion but with you being mostly gone |
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> and my own business starting is suffering due to the large amount of |
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> time the project takes I'm not seeing a whole lot of alternatives unless |
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> we get some help from some hard hitters. |
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> |
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> Yes we could leave the patches in and _hope_ that things continue to |
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> work. But who is going to watch the bugs and verify that something is |
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> not a flaw in our own design? how do we deal with fundamental design |
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> flaws with upstream security patches when they don't care? (I know you |
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> know this one all to well) example |
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> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=132149 |
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> |
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> Where is our core documentation? Where is the comparative analysis of |
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> security measures? Who is going to maintain our appropriate profiles? |
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> Keeping up with virtuals is nearly a task in and of itself. Rolling |
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> stages and working towards things like livecd's. These are fundamental |
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> things that have to be done on a cycles that follow gentoo mainline. how |
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> about aiming for getting some of these solutions to go gentoo mainline. |
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> All suids and daemons for example should really be compiled the way we |
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> do. But that's an uphill battle that I'm pretty sure I don't want to try |
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> to tackle alone. |
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|
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If you think this is one area where there are "low hanging fruit", please |
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push this into mainline Gentoo. I've used the "ssp-3.3.2-2" addition to |
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gcc to run gtk-gnutella with -fstack-guard. If it's too hard to puch these |
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things your self, please post _something_ that intrested users can |
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point to. |
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|
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> I see things like users that have completely uninstalled the |
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> hardened-toolchain to work around small bugs when they don't have to. I |
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> can't comment on every bug to say here is another way you can get the |
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> same end goal without them having to dismiss the solution completely, be |
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> that their own ignorance or ours it's a disservice to our community do |
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> nothing. |
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|
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Maybe a cycle of developer/user education needs to take place. Hardend- |
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Gentoo looks much like a proving ground; is it time for some of that hard |
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one effort to bear fruit in Gentoo and other projects? It does take dev |
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buy in to make most of the easy transitions distro wide. (and I would like |
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to believe that all source based distros _speed_ the adaption of upstream |
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tool chains.) |
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|
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> Being on this team means more than just watching the "hardened" bugs |
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> that get routed to us and replying to emails once every few weeks, one |
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> has to watch all toolchain bugs and look for how things correlate to |
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> each other and determine the right thing to do. |
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> |
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> Other distro's are wanting to adopt similar to the same solution but |
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> those guys need to be helped so they don't make fatal mistakes. Yes it's |
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> a very good sign when others want to adopt it. But that's also time |
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> consuming. Ask yourself should we keep our dear precious all to |
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> ourselves or dedicate some time and effort to other projects of the |
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> world. I think we should as most of these designs are being developed in |
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> house and we by far have the most experience. |
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> See http://d-sbd.alioth.debian.org/ for more details. |
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> |
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> How are we going to handle the other arches. |
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> ppc/ppc64 These two arches could be added to mix relatively easy. But |
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> **** we can't even get one of those teams to test simple kernel patches |
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> that were developed especially for them after multiple requests. |
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> |
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> Peter has many questions that he needs definitive answers to. With those |
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> questions going unanswered and him being a key player these days in your |
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> absence we could be potentially introducing more bugs than need be. |
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> He is/was happy with his own homegrown build system and does not really |
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> need to support us or our efforts. |
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> |
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> You want to help pappy? Spend your time being proactive vs defensive. |
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> Help me train some people so the workload is reduced on us and our time |
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> can be better spent focusing on making the next steps with more ease. |
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> |
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> After planting the initial seeds one day and seeing things being |
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> maintained properly long term I'd like to be just a user ya know. |
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|
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As always, do try and post much like this, where regular developers and |
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advanced users can see some of the problems and see where the bleeding edge |
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is heading. |
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|
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Thomas Zimmerman |
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|
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PS: Thanks. As an advanced user--without the skills to contribute to development-- |
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your work is truely appreacated. |
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|
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-- |
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