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On 05/26/2013 01:55 AM, Micha³ Górny wrote: |
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> On Sun, 26 May 2013 01:24:03 -0500 Daniel Campbell |
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> <dlcampbell@×××.com> wrote: |
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> |
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>> On 05/25/2013 02:53 PM, Anthony G. Basile wrote: |
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>>> We are moving too quickly on bug #448882 ([Tracker] packages |
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>>> not providing systemd units). We should come to better |
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>>> consensus on systemd integration and we were getting there |
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>>> with the idea of INSTALL_MASK. I don't know that it is a |
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>>> working solution yet. I have to oppose adding unit files |
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>>> unless we have a way to opt out for reasons I gave earlier, |
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>>> regarding embedded systems where one needs to conserve space |
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>>> aggressively. And we may have found a way to do so without |
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>>> cluttering ebuilds with USE flags. |
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>>> |
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>>> Can I ask the systemd people to design a working solution for |
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>>> opting out? I can't support this initiative without such a |
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>>> solution and I would be happy to work with the systemd people |
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>>> to reach it, ie I'll test. |
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>> |
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>> I'm not a dev (though I would like to be...), but consider me |
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>> interested in testing an opt-out method as well. I'm going to |
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>> try INSTALL_MASK and see what happens. I'm not sure if any of my |
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>> packages have systemd units yet, though. |
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> |
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> Please fix your e-mail client to send replies to the mail you are |
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> replying it, instead of the top mail in the thread. |
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> |
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>> As far as resisting systemd, why is that so bad? Vertical |
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>> integration is generally a bad idea with the sole exception of |
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>> when your use case(s) line up perfectly with the ivory tower and |
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>> you need all of the offered features. If Gentoo falls to |
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>> systemd, there will literally be no Linux-based distros left to |
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>> prevent it from taking over, and as a result Linux-based systems |
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>> will become more and more tightly integrated, killing the choice |
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>> that Gentoo truly stands for and homogenizing everything. |
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> |
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> It is bad because ebuilds are not place to put politics into. If |
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> you want to become dev, you should understand this. We are |
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> supposed to be serious people. Serious people don't break user |
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> systems or refuse to support them in the name of manifesting their |
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> wishes. |
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> |
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> It is bad because it's not systemd that's losing, it's Gentoo. |
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> Except for the fact that there's just a few people that take |
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> Gentoo seriously these days. |
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> |
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> Upstreams clearly show that they don't care. We can either sit in |
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> the corner and resent, or we can work on improving the situation. |
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> And going on flamewars or manifestations doesn't really improve |
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> anything, you should know that by now. |
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> |
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|
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Sorry, I sent the e-mail to the list under the wrong e-mail address |
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and retooled a forward to try to correct it. It seems my idea didn't |
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work. I'm using Thunderbird, so if this reply is screwed up as well, |
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I'd appreciate some insight to fix it. |
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|
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I agree that user systems shouldn't be broken, and that devs should be |
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serious about their responsibilities. I'm not exactly sure how Gentoo |
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is losing out on anything, but that's probably because I'm biased |
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against systemd. From the opposite side of the fence, Gentoo may |
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become less relevant to the vertical integration people if it doesn't |
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support systemd in some form. It's a choice and thus it should be |
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supported. If INSTALL_MASK is really all that's needed to protect |
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anti-systemd people, then perhaps the Gentoo team doesn't need to do |
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anything at all, so that's awesome. |
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|
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Each time I see this come up I wish there wasn't so much activism |
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present in the GNU/Linux world so people could focus more on fixing |
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problems and less on politics, but the politics have to be acted on |
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and/or against or it gets in the way of problem-solving and software |
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diversity. |
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I stick with Gentoo because most of the people working on it seem so |
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level-headed and keep the idea of choice in mind. I guess I'm |
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rambling, so I guess I'll close with a "Thanks". |
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