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On Sat, 25 Sep 2004 23:42:19 +0200 Bart Lauwers <blauwers@g.o> |
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wrote: |
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| > | 1) Safety is important, it should be our aim to have our |
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| > | default system as secure as it possibly could be. |
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| > |
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| > Uh, no. A *reasonable* level of security is good. "As secure as it |
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| > possibly could be" means turning on grsec, selinux etc in maximum |
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| > security mode, which makes a box unusable unless you spend a lot of |
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| > time screwing around with things. Nothing wrong with that under |
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| > certain circumstances, of course, but it should *not* be a default. |
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| |
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| As in how do you reason it would? You mean some things are not |
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| practically |
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| feasable? Well I agree on that (did you read as far down as the |
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| proposal?).... these things you name do not work with everything |
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| obviously and so these things just aren't possible yet for out of the |
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| box deployment, |
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|
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-fstack-protector does not work with everything. It is not useful with |
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many packages and it provides a nasty performance hit on some packages. |
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It is overkill for the majority of our users. We don't have it on by |
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default currently, and it isn't causing massive problems. |
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|
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| Yes I expected as much based on what I had read and I wonder about |
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| the |
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| ignorance and pretention of some people. You don't want security fine, |
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| turn it off. In the meanwhile make it easier for the consumers of our |
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| distro. It's time someone speaks out for the user! Frankly, I am tired |
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| of all these one offs and lets implement xyz useless feature |
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| discussions. This will help people, it will help businesses and as a |
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| consequence it will most definitly help Gentoo. Heck, it helps |
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| everyone except maybe you. |
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|
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The option is there for users who want it. By all means document it |
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better, so long as said documentation is accurate regarding what it |
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really does. Do not try to force it upon everyone, since it has |
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undesirable side effects in some situations. |
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|
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| On the matter of the russian roulette, it is no different, computers |
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| without |
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| a security policy are a disaster waiting to happen and the risk could |
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| cost someone their life (not in all uses of a computer granted). Both |
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| are loosing propositions. You cannot proof read all the code you put |
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| into a distro so you need better ways to attain an acceptable level of |
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| protection. |
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|
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Now that's *definitely* FUD. Anyone running computers in a life or death |
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situation should be getting code audits done, running selinux / grsec, |
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enabling ssp and taking whatever other measures are appropriate given |
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the risks. Anything else would be irresponsible. However, most of our |
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users are *not* in this kind of situation. SSP is overkill for most |
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people. |
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|
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Also remember that SSP does not remove security holes, it merely |
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mitigates the damage caused in certain situations. |
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|
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-- |
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Ciaran McCreesh : Gentoo Developer (Sparc, MIPS, Vim, Fluxbox) |
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Mail : ciaranm at gentoo.org |
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Web : http://dev.gentoo.org/~ciaranm |