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On 07/09/2015 10:45 AM, Alec Warner wrote: |
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> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 4:47 AM, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o |
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> <mailto:rich0@g.o>> wrote: |
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> |
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> On Thu, Jul 9, 2015 at 5:31 AM, hasufell <hasufell@g.o |
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> <mailto:hasufell@g.o>> wrote: |
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> > |
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> > The quality problem is that we have too many developers. If you make |
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> > community contributions easier, sane and more reliable (due to code |
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> > review) then you solve several problems at once, because you need _less_ |
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> > developers. Are you aware that we could potentially "pull" in hundreds |
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> > of contributors who chose to work on their personal overlay instead of |
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> > the gentoo tree? Are you aware that there are a lot of those people? |
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> |
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> Yes and no. |
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> |
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> I'll agree that with a review workflow we might only need one reviewer |
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> for every 10 contributors, or something like that. If we have 100 |
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> active devs today, in theory we could instead turn 20 of them into |
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> reviewers, and now we can support 2000 contributors. |
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> |
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> There are some big assumptions with this kind of argument, though: |
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> 1. We might find that we don't even have 20 devs interested in doing |
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> a substantial amount of review. |
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> 2. The main repository is very diverse. If 50% of our packages have |
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> only one person interested in maintaining them, then they get dropped |
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> since reviewers will ignore their contributions. Or, they'll just |
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> rubber-stamp them which is adding valueless work. |
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> |
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> So, a review system could make manpower either more of an issue or |
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> less of one. I suspect that trying to force it would basically end up |
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> putting the entire distro on hold until most of the current devs quit, |
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> and a new crop signs up who is interested in using the new workflow, |
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> and then they're starting with zero experience. |
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> |
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> I think a review model is best implemented by individual project |
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> teams. They could use it to track changes in an overlay or branch in |
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> the main tree, and then move those into the main tree using whatever |
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> quality system seems best. The team can figure out what is working |
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> best for it, and if over time a large number of devs feel that it is a |
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> good way to work we could then talk about doing it with the main tree. |
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> I still suspect we'll end up having problems with the 70% of packages |
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> that don't fall into a project though. |
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I think everybody is getting a bit heated over CI/Quality/automation, |
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when clearly there is no good reason to get so heated. Let me explain. |
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YES industry, commercial, research, FOSS and everybody is moving to some |
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sort of paradigm where as much automation of code examination is |
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streamline. Surely these efforts are a work in progress and as such will |
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evolved over time. It does not mean the existing, wonderfully manual |
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processes are being replaced, it just means that the simple, routine, |
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(scriptable if you like) filters are automated. In fact those manual |
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processes still need to occur, because the next generation of coders |
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have to learn how things work in order to extent the paradigm. |
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|
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Resources. Surely the major arches are at an advantage. But the current |
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cluster offerings are soon going to render very powerful processing so |
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even gargantuan, single threaded codes can be automated for CI, quality, |
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security etc etc. Both a cross-compile and native compile strategy needs |
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to experimented with. Those smaller arches will follow the bigger |
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arches; so in that we should just let x86 and other such arches blaze |
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the path for gentoo (in a non binding manner) while the various other |
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arches (with more humble resources) figure out how to build clusters on |
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these other arches. Lots of folks are clustering smalller arches to get |
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big tasks back into the realm of viability. |
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The big benefit for those other (more constrained arches) is that folks |
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that build embedded products on those arches will be very, very |
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interested in work on how to build a cluster, specific to those (sub) |
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arches for CI/quality/security. In fact mesos-distcc does not limit the |
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various arch types. So I would think all arches would get on-board and |
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just follow this paradigm in an easy, non-stressful manner. But the |
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Gentoo leadership does have a responsibility to include those other |
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arches in just how this occurs, during some extended transition period, |
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so that these other arch's still fell like they are part of this |
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extended gentoo family. Loosing those arches would be a horrible damage |
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to gentoo's reputation, imho. That is our diversity in arches is |
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something gentoo is widely know for and sets us apart, imho. |
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hth, |
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James |