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Peter posted <pan.2006.05.07.20.08.52.220544@×××××××.net>, excerpted |
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below, on Sun, 07 May 2006 16:08:52 -0400: |
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|
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> Anyway, I am a user, and I feel like I can respond. I have participated on |
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> bugzilla, contributed some ebuilds, tried to get a project going (nvidia |
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> unified drivers), and I never felt like I was not encouraged to |
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> participate or that my contributions were not wanted or appreciated. In |
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> fact, the only REALLY negative thing that happened was when Ciaran ripped |
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> me a new a---hole because he objected to the line spacing I used in a |
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> proposed ebuild. Not the ebuild itself, but the line spacing! |
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|
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[some rearranging] |
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|
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> I could not tell exactly what upset you so much about the current state |
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> of affairs. Were you upset at Ciaran's departure? Were you upset that he |
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> was "voted off the island?" Did someone say something to you which |
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> offended or upset you? Personally, I will not miss Ciaran and his "I can |
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> kill you with my brain." I was not impressed, or scared! |
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|
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I've come to realize over the years that I seem to be a bit more tolerant |
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of others and their foibles than some. I consider it a strength. |
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|
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When I started with Gentoo, I didn't see anything of benefit with the way |
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Ciaran carried himself, and in fact, had a rather low opinion of him. |
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Something has changed over the last year, however, as I watched him and |
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others, and Gentoo in general. I gained an entirely new respect for him |
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and his opinion. |
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|
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While he might not always put things in the most friendly way, something |
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I find regrettable but now understand, one of the first things I noticed |
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is how technically astute Ciaran is. The second thing I noticed is that |
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unlike some, if you want to get a real, pulled no punches opinion, you ask |
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Ciaran. He'll tell you exactly what he thinks of the idea and the |
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technical merits, and what needs to be changed to begin bringing it into |
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line. Again, it's not always (perhaps seldom) the most pleasant delivery, |
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but he's the one to go to if you want an honest opinion. In the end, if |
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one doesn't simply get discouraged by it all (the danger of being so |
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frank), it cuts thru the crap and builds an efficient product much faster |
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and with fewer exchanges than likely would have been the case had he been |
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more polite in his delivery. It's not the "yes" men or those that couch |
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their objections in polite agreement or even polite disagreement that are |
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at times the most valuable to have around, but the one or two people you |
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can go to that you can be SURE will tell it to you like it is -- the good |
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and ESPECIALLY the bad! There's a place in any organization for such |
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folks, and without them, that organization is far worse off. |
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|
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Watching him develop the news GLEP, I realized a couple other things as |
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well. He's as equally demanding of himself as he is of others -- he knew |
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the thing wasn't ready, and wouldn't be thru a number of additional |
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revisions, and said so. A watcher soon realized that not only was he |
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incorporating the ideas of others, but that it at that point didn't meet |
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his /own/ highly demanding standards. |
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|
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Secondly on the news glep, I realized just how nasty the process could be |
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at times, coming up with something that important, which by the same |
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measure, is that controversial. How many would have been able to take all |
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that abuse without getting discouraged and giving up, saying no agreement |
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between the parties was possible in the area? He took it all, melding the |
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changes into further revisions, and came back for more. |
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|
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Thru all that I gained a new appreciation for Ciaran and what makes him |
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tick. If there's ever a GLEP I care about and consider important to the |
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betterment of Gentoo, I hope there's someone like Ciaran I can get to |
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guide it thru the process. The glep, and Gentoo as a result, will end up |
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far better for it. |
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|
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Thus, tho not knowing or even necessarily wanting to know all the details |
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of what went on and why Ciaran no longer posts with a Gentoo address, I |
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was immensely relieved to see him still posting. One hopes that whatever |
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it was at some point can be worked out, because here at least, I see the |
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immense benefit to the organization that Ciaran can bring. I don't know |
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who was in the wrong and in some ways don't know that it matters. I do |
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hope that as time goes on, whether it be a month or a year or a couple |
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years from now, Ciaran is once more a part of what Gentoo has grown into |
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by that point, both having changed and ideally improved in the mean time. |
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|
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I had actually written to him expressing these same sentiments. Now I'm |
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doing so publicly as well. I realize it's heading off on a tangent of |
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sorts for the thread, but believe it needs publicly stated. |
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|
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> I also took some flak on bugzilla for duplicate bugs or disputes over |
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> validity of a bug report, etc. However, all of this eventually worked |
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> out. |
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|
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I've had my runins with that, too. Conversely to what I just expressed |
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above, I also believe that regrettably, many folks don't consider the |
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effect what they say may have on the other person. I've pointed out |
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before that there may in fact be far more drastic consequences to a |
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comment than intended. In particular, I don't like the INVALID closing. |
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NOTABUG or NEEDINFO or whatever, but INVALID IMO isn't the best choice. |
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It can be read by some as saying all the work they put into filing the bug |
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(and by extension, everything they've done with Gentoo) is invalid. If |
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that hits at the wrong moment in a person's life, that could have drastic |
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consequences. |
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|
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All I'm asking is that people think about the viewpoint of the other |
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person before responding, and ask themselves whether the response is not |
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only technically accurate, but ultimately beneficial both to Gentoo, and |
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to those involved in the individual case. Unfortunately, that's often a |
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weak point, with the same folks that have the strong points Ciaran does, |
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but this doesn't only apply to him, but to us all. There are times when |
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a straightup opinion is called for, and times when its not. Bless Ciaran, |
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he can be counted on to provide one when needed -- and when not, too. |
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=8^) |
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|
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Anyway, here too, ultimately things have worked out. Sometimes it just |
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took a bit. =8^) |
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|
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> In a community as large as this, and as fast moving, control is |
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> important. I disagree with your assessment of the dev test. I think it's |
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> important for up and coming devs to know the rules and how to apply |
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> them. Especially when it comes to having access to the tree. I also |
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> think it's important to have rules. There is no such thing as a utopian |
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> society, and nothing will ever satisfy all persons. A greatest good for |
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> the greatest number approach seems reasonable (as John Stuart Mill |
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> proposed a few centuries ago). |
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|
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+1 |
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|
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> I think what you're seeing is the beginnings of a transitional period |
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> for Gentoo. Unlike other distros where control is tightly centralized, |
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> Gentoo's openness is part of its problem as it grows. It will be a test |
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> of the leadership to make sure that the distro has a clear course and |
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> that internecine squabbles are dealt with at the appropriate level. |
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> Hopefully devrel will be such a level. |
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|
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Very insightful. Sometimes it hurts to change and to grow. What doesn't |
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change and grow, however, ultimately dies. Change is painful, but one can |
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hope Gentoo will ultimately come out the stronger for it. |
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|
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> Good luck with your Source Mage. |
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|
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Indeed! That it exists as an alternative to Gentoo in the community is a |
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good thing. Each solution has a slightly different emphasis. No one |
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solution can or will be right for everyone, and that the different |
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alternatives exist is a sign of a healthy and vital free/libra and open |
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source software community, not a sign of a stagnating one! Make it the |
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best you can, because those of us still with Gentoo at the moment will |
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certainly be doing our best to make Gentoo the best we can. =8^) |
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|
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-- |
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Duncan - List replies preferred. No HTML msgs. |
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"Every nonfree program has a lord, a master -- |
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and if you use the program, he is your master." Richard Stallman in |
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http://www.linuxdevcenter.com/pub/a/linux/2004/12/22/rms_interview.html |
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|
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|
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-- |
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