Re: [gentoo-dev] Monthly Gentoo Council Reminder for April

[Chris Gianelloni]

On Thu, 2007-04-05 at 13:29 +0200, Denis Dupeyron wrote:
> On 4/5/07, Alexandre Buisse <nattfodd@g.o> wrote:
> > Well, the thing is, vote happens only once a year, and quite a lot of
> > things can be done during that time. I just think that not having any
> > rule at all concerning limitations to the council is tying our hands in
> > our back. If the council never messes up, then this rule won't ever be
> > used, and if they do, we'll be happy to have this handy rather than
> > having to argue for ages and being told "you elected us, so shut up
> > and if you don't agree, don't vote for us next time" (which is an
> > answer I actually got several times).
>
> Why not simply allow trustees to veto a council decision ? This does
> not give trustees enough power to be a second council, but would
> permit them to stop something that they believe will damage Gentoo.

Actually, while it isn't spelled out, this is likely the case, since the
trustees (and the Foundation members, by extension) are the holders of
the Gentoo name.  The Foundation is what grants the Council its power by
"allowing" Gentoo (Linux) to govern itself.

Trust me, if the Council were doing something nasty and underhanded that
would endanger Gentoo, the trustees would try to do *something* to
prevent it.  That being said, I don't think that anybody is out to try
to harm Gentoo.  We (the Council) understand that we cannot appease
everybody all the time and don't make any apologies for not being able
to do so.

> This is very little red tape IMHO.

That being said, the Trustees really don't have "jurisdiction" over the
Council's technical decisions or their decisions on how to actually run
Gentoo.  This is a power the trustees could have, but it isn't one they
necessarily *do* have.  I have no idea if they would even want it and my
opinion doesn't matter a whole lot, since I would be in conflict of
interest in pretty much any decision.

> If it's only stupid and not harmful it will be solved naturally with
> the current structure by waiting for the next elections (either at the
> end of the term or because enough council members resigned due to the
> situation).

There's a huge difference between the Council doing something against
Gentoo and the Council doing something certain people don't agree with.
The former is completely intolerable while the latter is very likely to
happen with any decision the Council makes.  Some people will always
spout off conspiracy theories and their opinions on how they think
things should be, which is all fine and dandy except that it isn't how
things *are* currently.  If someone wants something changed, they can
very well work to get it changed.  Trying to force the Council to do
something via underhanded tactics or baseless accusations doesn't do
much.  Getting the community together does.

If the community decided that the Council is only allowed to hold
meetings on Thursday when the moon is full, we'd abide by it.

I just find this whole situation hysterical since you have so many
people saying the Council needs to "grow a pair" and actually try to
enact some good, and when we do, you hear a few vocal individuals
running around screaming like we killed their kitten.  So which is it?
Would you rather have a strong Council that is capable of making
decisions without having to worry about whether that decision is popular
or not, or would you rather have a weak Council that cannot do anything
without prior developer approval, completely castrating their abilities
to enact change for fear of being removed from office?

-- 
Chris Gianelloni
Release Engineering Strategic Lead
Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams
Games Developer/Council Member/Foundation Trustee
Gentoo Foundation