Re: [gentoo-dev] Gentoo part II.

[Kumba]

splite wrote:

> No flaming intended.  As it happens, I read your last paragraph very
> carefully, hoping to see a big "April Fool!" at the end.
>
> Sorry if my style offended you, but I wasn't aware that "intellectual"
> meant "oblivious to satire."  So let me be direct:
>
> The stuff you're proposing is what's killing Debian, and steered me away
> from it in the first place.  I suspect I'm not the only one.
>
> Here are some serious, intellectual questions (note the scholarly
> Roman numerals):
>
> I. Wouldn't developer's time be better spent _developing_ instead of reading
> minutes, making motions, and voting?
>
> II. Wouldn't users's time be better spent _using_ Gentoo to get some actual
> work done instead of reading proposed amendments and lobbying for new
> rules?
>
> As a user and potential developer, I certainly don't have time for that
> kind of shit.  If I want politics, I'll watch C-SPAN or run for city
> council.
>

IMHO, Politics will always exist, even in an organization like Gentoo. 
You raise several good points, I admit that, but don't you think that 
your "satire" came off a little bit harsh in your original post?  Satire 
can be good satire or bad satire.  It's all about how you phrase it.

All the things zhen proposed were merely proposals.  They are not 
anything concrete or set in stone.  It is probable that any proposals 
made by zhen may have all live through debate to see the light of day, 
or all may be consigned to bitrot in /dev/null.  It is also probable 
that some (but not all) of his proposals may survive.  Who knows?  What 
matters is they were just that -- Proposals.  Ideas.

Because of the fact that they were just proposals, I think the way you 
made your point was perhaps a bit harsh, and a bit uneccessary.  There 
are better ways to say things w/o satiraclly picking apart every single 
sentence to expose any possible flaws.  You could have been much more 
polite in stating your belief of why Gentoo should steer clear of such 
ideas to avoid becoming the next Debian.



> Good, I hate flamewars.
>
> If by "grow up", you mean, "saddle myself and others with lots of
> arbitrary rules in lieu of doing useful work", then no thanks.
>
> And here I thought I was being proactive.  Or should I wait until the first
> Gentoo Continental Congress and submit my concerns as a rider to an
> appropriations bill?  Shoot, I'm satirising again, aren't I?
>
> Seriously, I don't doubt your good intentions, but IMO, you're taking
> Gentoo way _too_ seriously.  Gentoo is fun and useful.  Rules and politics
> can only make it less so.
>


You're absolutely right on several things here.  Flamewars suck, so lets 
not turn this discussion into one.  Second, Gentoo is indeed very fun. 
I was drawn to Gentoo because of the community atmosphere, and because 
developers were friendly to users.  Even to users who are using Gentoo 
as their very first Gentoo install.  This alone shows the vastly 
different attitude within Gentoo when compared to other distributions 
and other OSS OSes.

I don't see Gentoo becoming heavily politicized.  But I do feel Gentoo 
needs better structuring as an organization.  Several of the ideas 
proposed by zhen could very well assist that.  I'm quite sure if any of 
his proposals are found to be incompatible with how Gentoo structures 
itself, they will be summarily tossed aside and forgotten in the annals 
of time.  No need to lash out with such ferocity at mere concepts, ideas 
that haven't even been discussed/debated yet.  Simply state your opinion 
of said ideas, and back them up with proper logical reasoning.  That is 
the most any of us can hope to do.

--Kumba


-- 
"Such is oft the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: 
small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are 
elsewhere."  --Elrond


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