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On 6/19/07, Steve Long <slong@××××××××××××××××××.uk> wrote: |
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> Chris Gianelloni wrote: |
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> > On Mon, 2007-06-18 at 06:01 +0100, Steve Long wrote: |
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> >> Stephen Bennett wrote: |
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> >> > Not everyone sees that as a reason not to use a potentially useful |
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> >> > piece of software. We're not debian. |
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> >> |
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> >> Could you clarify whether this is indeed a Gentoo QA issue, or in fact a |
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> >> licensing issue? If the latter case, this discussion should prob'y go to |
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> >> the new -project ml if and when, or indeed the user forums. |
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> > |
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> > The "problem" with skype is really a problem with our policy. The |
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> > policy is really designed for open source software which we can actually |
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> > "fix" when we find a problem. |
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> Yeah and that's kinda the whole argument against closed-source. I fail to |
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> see how that's the problem of a Free software distro? Further, if it's a |
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> policy issue, why are you guys continuing the thread? Oh I see, when it's |
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> stuff *you* care about, it's development. Cool. |
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|
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I'll try not respond directly to the trollish like statement, and will |
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try to keep my response as non-troll-like as possible ( i might |
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fail..but if so, its because of my earlier defilement I underwent when |
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I voluntarily installed IE in linux/wine :( ) I think its fine to |
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discuss such issues as long we are calm and rational about it. Half |
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the discussion is to as whether or not this is a policy problem, and |
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not purely a technical one, as afaik, theres no ML dedicated to |
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discussing which ML something should be on :) |
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|
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Lets try the similarities between say, SunJava and Skype, both having |
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alternatives ( ie: blackdown ), ( im talking about the JVM here, which |
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to the best of my knowledge is not yet OSS ). |
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|
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Both are restricted by upstream in licensing that wont permit us to |
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host the files ourself. |
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|
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To the best of my knowledge, neither Java or Skype have any source |
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available that we can fix ourselves. |
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|
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The discussion question is, if java for some reason of insanity, were |
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to release a new version, which gentoo deemed 'unstable', and then a |
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week later prohibit all downloads of prior versions, what would we |
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do?. |
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|
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The fact is, that regardless of 'policy', people want Java, and many |
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servers using Java may be utilizing software which they had to pay |
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for, in their JVM. ( And you guys have all seen how cross-version |
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friendly java stuff can be right? 1.4->1.5 gave me good times... ) |
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And it would be senseless for us to say 'hmm... java's not OSS free, |
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lets take it out of gentoo altogether, considering that until now, it |
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had been quite satisfactory in portage. |
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|
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I'm probably as much an OpenSource / FreeSoftware advocate as the rest |
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of this ML ( I had a friend order me a Chë Stallman T' from literally |
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the other side of the world ), and windows & Microsoft drive me nuts, |
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but as painful as it is for me to say this, I believe if there was a |
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non-opensource static Linux-native build of internet explorer, and |
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Microsofts licensing permitted it, that there would be one day an |
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ebuild in portage for it ( it would probably be permanently hard |
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masked tho, under 'this is suspicious enemy software' which would |
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require you to set SELL_MY_SOUL="YES" in make.conf ), because fact of |
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the matter is, people without windows still need that evil little tyke |
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to test websites so that the lesser informed greater percentage of the |
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population ( ~80% ) who still use it to surf won't run screaming from |
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your site and never return. |
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|
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<gentoo-project-esque-content> |
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IMO, Gentoo is in the middle of the grey lands between "only use |
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opensource" , and "you corporate weenie". While Gentoo does actively |
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encourage opensource software, it still permits you to be the one who |
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wears the pants, the one to make the decision, making Gentoo your own |
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project, not some elitist dev's extremist ideals, and this opens up |
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the user base, and helps produce a migration path by giving the user |
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something they're familiar with, like, and use, while we create |
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something better and progressively coax them into using it, and thus |
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further spreading the good opensource futher than it otherwise would. |
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</g-p-e-c> |
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|
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*whimpers* i think that is all... nobody torch me please :) |
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|
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|
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|
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|
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> |
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> > With the closed-source stuff, our policy |
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> > should be a bit more lax since we're at the mercy of the upstream. |
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> Er what? Some of us don't wish to be "at the mercy of" anyone, especially |
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> not some corporation nicking VOIP. That's why we use GNU software. |
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> |
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> > Also, remember that our policy says that 30 days is *suggested* before |
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> > stabilization. The maintainer has the authority to ask for |
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> > stabilization sooner, even the same day the package is put into the |
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> > tree, if there is sufficient reason for doing so. |
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> > |
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> Whatever; the point is y'all were much more vicious about someone offering |
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> all the code under the GPL.. Honestly, this whole email makes me wonder why |
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> you work in FOSS. tuomov only wanted to be sure updates were issued |
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> promptly. What exactly is the technical difference? |
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> |
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> >> As for potentially useful, so was Internet Explorer, last time I looked |
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> >> at what you could do with its Object Model. I still ain't voting to bring |
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> >> it to Gentoo.. ;) |
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> > |
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> > Please refrain from these kinds of "arguments" that have no technical |
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> > bearing. Internet Explorer doesn't even *run* on Gentoo. If it did, it |
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> > would likely be in the tree since quite a few people would likely use |
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> > it, even if just for testing. I know that if I were able to test things |
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> > on IE from Linux without having to fire up VMware that I would be quite |
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> > happy. |
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> > |
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> Er let's not get into it. Use WINE or a dual-boot, or VMware, or xen or |
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> whatever you want. (It was a joke, hence the wink. Call the proctors.. |
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> whoops!) |
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> |
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> /me wanders off mumbling about hypocrisy, and thinking about !anarchy in |
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> #bash.. |
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> |
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> -- |
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> gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list |
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> |
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> |
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|
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|
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-- |
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Kent |
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ruby -e '[1, 2, 4, 7, 0, 9, 5, 8, 3, 10, 11, 6, 12, 13].each{|x| |
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print "enNOSPicAMreil kdrtf@×××.com"[(2*x)..(2*x+1)]}' |
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-- |
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