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On 07/15/2012 06:15 AM, Ben de Groot wrote: |
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> On 15 July 2012 04:46, Peter Stuge <peter@×××××.se> wrote: |
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>> Markos Chandras wrote: |
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>>> understand that quizzes is not an ideal way to "hire" people |
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>>> either, but they worked ok for all these years |
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>> |
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>> I don't know.. Subjectively I don't think they work ok at all, |
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>> since I still haven't finished them even after many years. |
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> |
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> I agree that they don't work "ok" -- it only seems that way because |
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> people are still joining us. |
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> |
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> The first time I did the quizzes, it took me 9 months. After having |
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> been away for a couple of years, I recently returned as Gentoo dev, |
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> and the second time I did the quizzes it took me 3 months. I've |
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> seen others take a long time doing them as well. Davide (pesa), one |
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> of our most valued contributors in the Qt team, took close to two |
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> years I think. |
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> |
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> I think this way we lose much valuable developer time. These |
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> people could have had commit access and done much valuable work so |
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> much earlier, if there wasn't this obstacle of the quizzes... |
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> |
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> We should think about what kind of people we want to attract as |
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> future Gentoo contributors, and what are the best ways of |
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> introducing them to the tasks they would need to perform, and the |
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> knowledge they would need to have. |
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> |
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> I'm happy to see that some effort was made, and we now know that |
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> the web app is not working. What other ways can we think of that |
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> might improve the recruitment process? |
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> |
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>> But it's totally possible that they actually *do* work ok, and |
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>> that I really absolutely *must* know everything they ask about |
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>> before starting recruitment. Not sure. |
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> |
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> The topics touched in the quizzes are things that a Gentoo |
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> developer should know. I just don't think the way they work is |
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> conducive to a good learning experience for most people. |
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> |
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>>> and it is the only alternative we have at the moment. |
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>> |
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>> Thinking outside of the quiz^Wbox and getting to know people is a |
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>> good alternative. It takes time too of course, but no quiz or web |
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>> app can replace it. |
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> |
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> What I noticed in my own experience as lead of our Qt team, is |
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> that getting people started on the real work, being part of the |
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> developer community and process, is a good way to introduce them |
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> to how we do things in Gentoo. The Qt team has its official |
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> overlay, and it is easy for us to give new contributors access to |
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> it. That way they can learn to write ebuilds and eclasses, and how |
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> to improve them, commit them, and get used to a good workflow. |
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> Hanging out in the IRC channel and taking part in discussions is |
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> an invaluable part of this as well. |
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> |
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> I'm sure a lot of mentors do things in similar ways. And maybe |
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> others have things to add to this. |
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> |
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> We could have a portal page (e.g. on the wiki) with links to all |
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> the relevant documentation for new developers (dev handbook, |
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> devmanual, foundation info, gleps, etc) that they should have |
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> knowledge of. Then recruits can read these while they are doing |
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> work with their mentor, in an overlay (either an official team |
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> overlay, or betagarden). |
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> |
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> We could also develop a collection of tasks that a mentor can |
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> choose from to give their recruits to do. Hopefully this way we |
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> can train people in a more organic way. |
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> |
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> Then when the mentor deems a recruit ready, they could have an |
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> interview with one of the recruiters, and get commit access to the |
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> official tree as usual. |
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> |
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> Anyway, these are some of my ideas. What do you think? |
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> |
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Hi, |
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|
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Thank you for the feedback. Let me clarify a few bits though. |
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In my opinion, the quizzes contain all the knowledge that is required |
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for someone to start developing for Gentoo. Yes, maybe it requires too |
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much knowledge but this is because we are not sure that the mentors |
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have done their work properly so we don't have to go over the same |
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steps again during the recruitment process. Like you said, working in |
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an overlay is a very important part of the process but I don't think |
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every mentor out there does that for his recruits. So we can't rely on |
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that. On the other hand, after having some experience as recruiter, |
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and looking at the status of each recruit when I pick them up, I can |
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say which mentors are doing their work properly and who don't. But |
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this would require constant mentor evaluation which adds an extra |
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overhead in the process. |
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Also the recruitment team is (as always) understaffed, meaning it is |
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highly unlikely for us to spend energy and time to come up with a new |
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recruitment process whilst trying to keep the recruitment queue short. |
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However, I can counter-propose the following: |
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|
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1) Have a chat with the mentor. Find out what he did with his recruit, |
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and maybe we can be more relaxed during the quiz review process if the |
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recruit has enough experience to join the developer community. The |
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recruiter could side-step part of the quizzes and ask different |
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questions based on recruits background and interests. This however, |
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would still require quiz completion (but maybe a loose one). |
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|
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2) I believe wiki is a great resource for recruitment. We can create a |
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Recruitment page listing all the relevant links, info etc that a |
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wannabe developer will need during his recruitment process and his |
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first few weeks of development. However, we need to be careful to not |
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duplicate contents from handbook or devmanual. |
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|
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- -- |
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Regards, |
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Markos Chandras / Gentoo Linux Developer / Key ID: B4AFF2C2 |
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