1 |
On Wed, 21 Aug 2013 12:07:16 +0400 |
2 |
Sergey Popov <pinkbyte@g.o> wrote: |
3 |
|
4 |
> 21.08.2013 00:06, Tom Wijsman пишет: |
5 |
> > On Tue, 20 Aug 2013 15:41:42 -0400 |
6 |
> > Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote: |
7 |
> > |
8 |
> >>> Let me dig up an example... |
9 |
> >>> |
10 |
> >>> Our last sys-kernel/gentoo-sources stabilization was 3 months ago: |
11 |
> >> |
12 |
> >> I don't really see a problem with stable package being all of 3 |
13 |
> >> months old. Contrast that with youtube-dl which pull from ~arch |
14 |
> >> and rebuild about 3x/week. |
15 |
> > |
16 |
> > For something that releases once to twice a week, it is a problem; |
17 |
> > we're not talking about a package that gets some slow commits here, |
18 |
> > no, let's run `git log --oneline v3.8.13..v3.10.7 | wc -l`: 28233 |
19 |
> |
20 |
> And you are dead sure that shiny new versions does not need testing in |
21 |
> Gentoo for a reasonable amount of time(30 days)? If yes, then we have |
22 |
> a problem in definitions here(thus, i am not talking about security |
23 |
> stabilizations, they should be done as quickly, as bug reveals) |
24 |
|
25 |
3.10 is not a shiny new version, it has been in the Portage tree for 7 |
26 |
weeks now (upstream release at 2013-06-30 22:13:42 (GMT)); so, that's |
27 |
almost double the time you are suggesting. |
28 |
|
29 |
> > That's a lot of commits; now you need to realize that every single |
30 |
> > commit in this means something, a lot of them are bug fixes |
31 |
> > (stability, security, reliability, anti corruption, ...) whereas of |
32 |
> > course a part of it also introduces parts of new features and |
33 |
> > refactoring. |
34 |
> > |
35 |
> > Desktop users might not care for all of these, but sysadmins will; |
36 |
> > actually, that's what this thread is about, they are switching to ~ |
37 |
> > because of things like this. Who are we stabilizing for then?! |
38 |
> |
39 |
> You should undestand that stabilizing new kernel should also imply |
40 |
> that some important modules, presenting in tree will also work with |
41 |
> them. I really do not like slow upstreams and situations like with |
42 |
> nvidia-drivers, but i understand that this is not kernel team matter, |
43 |
> it is upstream problem. |
44 |
|
45 |
Why should an external proprietary module that does not fix what is |
46 |
broken for 7 weeks now block stabilization; it has never blocked |
47 |
stabilization before, and I do not see a reason it should now... |
48 |
|
49 |
> And that fact, that you can successfully build and run kernel for a |
50 |
> couple of hours, does not make it "good, well tested stable candidate" |
51 |
|
52 |
Having people run it for 7 weeks is not a couple of hours. |
53 |
|
54 |
> > |
55 |
> > Bitrot due to a lack of resources. |
56 |
> > |
57 |
> |
58 |
> Such problem is exists, yeah, i agree. But do not overcomplicate |
59 |
> things. We should fight with lack of resources, not with turning |
60 |
> stable into "just more old, but also breakable testing" |
61 |
|
62 |
Well, my thoughts is that the way we are doing it now we aren't going to |
63 |
be able to deal with the lack of resources; so, a different approach is |
64 |
necessary and I don't see how it is "old, but also breakable"... |
65 |
|
66 |
-- |
67 |
With kind regards, |
68 |
|
69 |
Tom Wijsman (TomWij) |
70 |
Gentoo Developer |
71 |
|
72 |
E-mail address : TomWij@g.o |
73 |
GPG Public Key : 6D34E57D |
74 |
GPG Fingerprint : C165 AF18 AB4C 400B C3D2 ABF0 95B2 1FCD 6D34 E57D |