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Dnia 17 lutego 2016 05:00:27 CET, Richard Yao <ryao@g.o> napisał(a): |
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>On 02/08/2016 10:09 PM, Rich Freeman wrote: |
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>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2016 at 7:58 PM, Anthony G. Basile |
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><blueness@g.o> wrote: |
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>>> |
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>>> what does in-house tool mean? i'm a gentoo developer but i also |
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>work |
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>>> on an upstream project (eudev) that 14 distros use. |
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>>> |
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>>> some of the criticism given here are my concerns as well and i've |
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>>> spoken with the various distros --- slack, parted magic, puppy. |
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>they |
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>>> get what's going on and they still see eudev is the best way forward |
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>>> for now. it may not be in the future, but neither will a udev |
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>>> extracted from a compiled full systemd codebase. |
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>> |
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>> How many of those 14 distros have more than 14 users? |
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>> |
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>> Look, I get it, some people don't like systemd. That's fine. |
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>> However, you have to realize at this point that a non-systemd |
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>> configuration is anything but mainstream. There will always be a |
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>> "poppyseed linux" whose purpose in life seems to be to preserve linux |
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>> without sysfs or some other obscure practice. I just think that |
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>> Gentoo should offer the choice to do those things, but have a more |
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>> mainstream set of defaults. |
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> |
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>The new mainstream is docker. Docker recently switched to Alpine Linux, |
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>which uses OpenRC+eudev: |
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> |
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>https://www.brianchristner.io/docker-is-moving-to-alpine-linux/ |
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> |
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>That dwarfs whatever marketshare systemd has in the same way that |
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>Android+iOS dwarfed whatever marketshare Windows has. |
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> |
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>If userbase is what matters to you, then OpenRC+eudev won. It is the |
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>logical choice for those concerned about userbase because that is what |
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>the Linux ecosystem will be using going forward. |
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> |
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>I do not think userbase should be the sole means by which we make |
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>decisions, but those that think otherwise should now join the |
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>eudev+OpenRC camp. It has the bigger userbase share going forward. |
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> |
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>To put it another way, the war is over. Welcome abroad. :) |
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Oh, the new thing every cool kid users these days. I have only one question in return: for how long? |
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Today Alpine uses eudev. But people change, distributions change. One year from now, it may be using systemd. |
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Today docker uses Alpine. Tomorrow it may use something else. Or even require systemd by design. |
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Today docker is the cool thing. One year from now, nobody may remember about it. Didn't things like this happen before? |
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Now, let's extend this to a perspective of few years. What is more likely to be extinct: userbase of eudev or systemd? |
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> |
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>>> |
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>>> it needs to be in the new stage4s to make a bootable system. imo a |
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>>> stage4 should be bootable modulo a kernel. |
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>>> |
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>> |
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>> Sure, a stage4 based on systemd makes a lot of sense. I don't really |
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>> see the point in leaving a kernel out though - I'd even stick a |
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>> precompiled one in /boot on top of having the sources installed. Why |
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>> not make a stage4 install something that takes all of 5 minutes? |
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>> |
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>> I think that offering an eudev-based distro as a default just doesn't |
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>> make sense in 2016. I just think the better road to take is to start |
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>> treating virtual/udev as something that gets installed post-stage3. |
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>> We can't even get people to agree on vi vs emacs as a default. |
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> |
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>We can leave virtual/udev out of stage3, but that doesn't diminish the |
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>need to select sensible default for the virtual/udev provider. |
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-- |
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Best regards, |
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Michał Górny (by phone) |
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