Re: Code Review Systems Was: [gentoo-dev] Git Migration: launch plan & schedule

[Alec Warner]

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 11:07 AM, Tobias Klausmann <klausman@g.o>
wrote:

> Hi!
>
> This got a bit rambly, sorry 'bout that.
>
> tl;dr: Continuous Integration is a neat idea if you have the
> Hardware. The off-mainstream arch teams don't.
>

Clearly because we cannot be perfect, we should not even try!
Realistically aside from the major arches none of the other arches have
large userbases. I think quality for the sake of quality is pretty silly;
but if we can improve the quality of arches where hardware is readily
available we should do so (regardless of minority architecture objections.)

-A


>
>
> On Tue, 07 Jul 2015, Ciaran McCreesh wrote:
> > On Tue, 07 Jul 2015 08:04:47 +0800
> > Patrick Lauer <patrick@g.o> wrote:
> > > I'll laugh about it next time I update OpenFOAM:
> > >
> > > Fri Jun 27 12:52:19 2014 >>> sci-libs/openfoam-2.3.0
> > >        merge time: 1 hour, 5 minutes and 8 seconds.
> > > or
> > >
> > > Sun Jun 29 20:36:09 2014 >>> sci-mathematics/nusmv-2.5.4
> > >        merge time: 2 hours, 58 minutes.
> >
> > What's the problem? Better the build bot wastes that time once than a
> > whole bunch of users do.
>
> Just be aware that that Just Won't Happen for the off-mainstream
> archs. We just don't have the hardware to keep up with something
> like that. Unless you want to employ several people reordering
> the CI checks so a test for glibc doesn't make mutt, util-linux,
> iptables and 55 other packages wait for hours.
>
> 'Cause invariably, if the CI system is delayed beyond the
> expectation for the package itself, it will be ignored.
>
> It would also mean that the other purposes the devboxes are used
> for will be delayed non-trivially. In the case of Alpha, that
> would for example be upstream gcc testing, and stage3 building. I
> am sure arches like PPC64, IA64 and so on have the same problem.
>
> > > That's without dependencies, so from a clean minimal starting point
> > > (once you figure out what useflags are needed) you're looking at 12+
> > > hours of walltime to get that checked. (On a reasonably modern Xeon
> > > with SSDs ...)
> >
> > Uh, no, because you use binary packages for the dependencies, and you
> > use a package mangler that can figure out the use flags for you.
>
> Even with binary package usage (which is not as efficient as it
> could be due to USE flags), testing Qt4 (as in compile it and run
> the test suite, which is the bare minimum) took me close to 10
> hours the other day. Not including fixing fetch problems halfway
> through. During this time, very little else got done on the one
> devbox we have.
>
> > > So thanks for your intentional comedy, but let's be serious here.
> >
> > Exherbo's been doing all this for years, and it works rather well. The
> > only comedy is that Gentoo doesn't even realise this is trivial to do
> > nowadays.
>
> Exherbo is not supporting as many off-mainstream architectures as
> we do, so the comparison is flawed at best. Yes, sure, let's run
> CI for amd64 and maybe x86 and whoever else has the hardware. But
> it will not speed up stabilization bugs regarding the long tail.
> It might even lead to people completely ignoring the slow
> architectures and the rift between amd64 and the rest becoming
> yet wider.
>
> Don't get me wrong, abandoning Alpha and other architectures is
> an option, but remember that for some of these, we are the last
> distro that still provides install media and a decent (as in:
> current and complete-ish) set of packages. The very fact that we
> are able to let amd64 and the rest drift a bit is the reason why
> we can still pull it off.
>
> I have considered dropping Alpha entirely (for myself, that is;
> I'd resign as the arch team lead and stop working on it; the
> devbox, which is soft-donated through me, would stay available).
> But I would rather not, for various reasons, none of which are
> technical. Then again, I'm not a Gentoo dev because it makes
> sense rationally (it does, but it's not my reason).
>
> In essence, assuming we can "just scale" to make CI work is
> ignoring the matter of the slower archs. And I suspect the "it
> works on amd64, fuck everyone else" is not something we want to
> pick as a motto.
>
> Regards,
> Tobias`
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from aboard the Culture ship
>         GSV (System Class) Empiricist
>
>