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On 2007.07.13 18:12, Chris Gianelloni wrote: |
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> On Fri, 2007-07-13 at 08:34 +0200, Christian Faulhammer wrote: |
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> > Mike Doty <kingtaco@g.o>: |
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> > |
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> > > We're voting on this next council meeting so if you have input, |
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> now |
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> > > would be the time. |
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> > |
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> > Really, I don't like the idea...the list has been calm for some |
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> time |
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> > now, the discussions were lengthy sometimes but not aggressive. |
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> |
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[snip stuff I mostly agree with] |
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> -- |
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> Chris Gianelloni |
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> Release Engineering Strategic Lead |
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> Alpha/AMD64/x86 Architecture Teams |
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> Games Developer/Soon to be former Council Member and glad/Foundation |
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> Trustee |
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> Gentoo Foundation |
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> |
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|
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The original vision for the proctors failed because the council |
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perceived that the proctors was going to be a a high profile, |
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preemptive action project, mostly on the -dev mailing list. |
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To be preemptive requires time to act - which is just not possible |
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without moderation or some form of delay. |
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To be high profile requires to be very public too, so there is actually |
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a profile to see at all. Human nature dictates that individuals don't |
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like the 'loss of face' associated with having their shortcomings |
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pointed out in public, thus the most successful proctors work was |
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carried out on a one to one basis, not preemtively and in a very low |
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profile way. In my opinion, the project was successful in improving |
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communications but not in the way it was originally envisioned by the |
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council when the project was started. |
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Oh - a final word on the proctors ... there is no need to be a member |
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of any project to smooth out misunderstandings or help improve |
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communications. A thick skin to avoid being upset when you try to help |
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and its not required is an asset though. |
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|
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|
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I don't like the proposed ML change, for several reasons. |
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|
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1. As others have said, it will create a class structure within Gentoo, |
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with non-dev contributors becoming second class citizens. At the same |
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time, the barrier to becoming a develper will be increased. |
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|
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2. Something that can be done by *anybody* (list moderation) will be |
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done by *nobody* - You only need look around at your workplace to see |
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that. Worse still, if the proposed moderation actually happens, it will |
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be based on nepotism. I say that because people will only look at posts |
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they are likely to be interested in. |
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|
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3. Gentoo is a living organism ... users (including devs) contribute |
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what they can when they can. As has already been discussed, |
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organisations go through several major structural changes as they grow |
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and its possible gentoo is due one now. |
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Keeping in mind those three points I propose that :- |
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a) -core is unchanged |
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b) -dev has its scope narrowed to gentoo wide technical issues only |
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c) -per herd lists are used for traffic that does not concern almost |
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everyone. |
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|
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This reducing the scope of of -dev reduces the noise on the list as |
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presently, even the on topic posts are noise to most devs. |
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|
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The above restructuring allows room for gentoo to grow, without |
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creating any second class citizens and reduces the perceived noise on - |
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dev at the same time. |
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|
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Should the council want to enable moderation, they need to appoint a |
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group to do it *everyone* simply won't work. Finding members might be |
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difficult as the original ML control group has just been disbanded. |
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|
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Before the council vote on this latest idea, I suggest they learn from |
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the open source movement and look at other distros that have survived |
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to become bigger (head count) than Gantoo and see what they did. There |
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is no need to reinvent the wheel or suffer from the 'not invented here' |
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syndrome. Drawing on what other distros or large projects have done is |
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the was OSS works. |
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|
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The worst thing the council can do is vote this measure as a parting |
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gesture, a process that cannot be completed before the existing |
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councils last meeting on 9th August. It needs proper research and |
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consideration so is best left to the incoming council since they will |
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have to live with the decision. |
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|
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Regards, |
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|
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Roy Bamford |
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(NeddySegoon) |
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-- |
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gentoo-dev@g.o mailing list |