1 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |
2 |
Hash: SHA512 |
3 |
|
4 |
Ciaran McCreesh: |
5 |
> On Thu, 20 Feb 2014 11:48:11 +0100 Ulrich Mueller <ulm@g.o> |
6 |
> wrote: |
7 |
>> We don't want users having to solve a Zebra Puzzle [1] (or, for |
8 |
>> the more theoretically inclined, a satisfiability problem [2]) to |
9 |
>> find an acceptable combination of their USE flags. |
10 |
> |
11 |
> Actually, REQUIRED_USE was introduced precisely to require users |
12 |
> to solve SAT without help... As you may recall, we *were* going to |
13 |
> use pkg_pretend for this sort of thing to give the users a friendly |
14 |
> error message, but this was replaced at the last minute with |
15 |
> REQUIRED_USE to force package manglers to reduce the quality of |
16 |
> error message that's produced. |
17 |
> |
18 |
> So really we should just scrap REQUIRED_USE in EAPI 6, and migrate |
19 |
> any ebuilds currently using it to a sane alternative. |
20 |
> |
21 |
|
22 |
|
23 |
One thing that bothers me most about gentoo is a discussion I had with |
24 |
a colleague who uses FreeBSD. It ended up like... gentoo is |
25 |
interesting, but wtf all those USE flags and no idea how to even get |
26 |
something to build without reading through forum threads, mailing |
27 |
lists, et c. ... and finally trying to get help on IRC. |
28 |
That guy is not new to linux. And he is right. |
29 |
|
30 |
Usability is not our strongest thing. That's why I pushed for a clear |
31 |
decision on this matter, because the whole thing is already confusing |
32 |
and weird enough for new users. The new python eclasses and multilib |
33 |
added to that complexity (but that will hopefully be gone when the |
34 |
transition is over, more or less). People who regularly hack and play |
35 |
with gentoo don't have any problem with those things and quickly get |
36 |
ideas about emerge conflicts based on experience... where a new user |
37 |
would never get to the root of the problem and just give up. |
38 |
|
39 |
But the question is... what sane alternative to REQUIRED_USE? That |
40 |
will also have impact on a lot of eclasses. |
41 |
|
42 |
|
43 |
Also... I find mgornys idea not too bad, meaning USE flag naming |
44 |
should be feature oriented and not implementation oriented. That is |
45 |
definitely an issue QA has to comment on. But I really feel we will |
46 |
get some hate from people who try to avoid certain implementations for |
47 |
one or another reason. And there can be valid reasons. So those people |
48 |
will have to use alternatives like package.mask. |
49 |
Another problem I see is that e.g. "gui" could be a bit too generic. |
50 |
If some dev uses it for an ncurses gui in his ebuild... then we have |
51 |
successfully screwed up easy setup of X-less servers, because "-gui" |
52 |
will also kill all non-X guis. |
53 |
Anyway... what we can do to improve the overall situation while |
54 |
discussing this: use proper local USE flag descriptions. |
55 |
"Add support for x11-libs/gtk+ (The GIMP Toolkit)" is totally useless |
56 |
in 95% of the cases. Still... a lot of ebuilds don't override that |
57 |
description. So I often end up actually unpacking the source tarball |
58 |
and reading the configure description. Fail. |
59 |
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- |
60 |
|
61 |
iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJTBjBWAAoJEFpvPKfnPDWza6EIAIoctpgmuUN8m793AtkaLExI |
62 |
WvI85BzjxLZ/71w4wNC2Fgeqid4qvTMlopCnqfqSrXBJqXPwiuhsDMTh2DPQOuRU |
63 |
hm3DvZSbApCJnGXqwE3XeJSarQnmBZ+Ynbkv/keqLWsErG/6BxRxsK4a1DW36vhf |
64 |
MB60Ysb2bpI/vn+ihtbHUCC/Z5LzzY8CtvC4cqydoVfl4hPxbi+oZaaoBM8Ul9AJ |
65 |
no9Ql7lK6J5SRuLqs8vB5XAYdt+crm76fzg0kMpNm4zkNNMqOLDIUYy/tLXqibwl |
66 |
TnGvah9PeN9mxo72iURIhXbnIUeoabShr3ELKSgu22QZ1l7yG3WGhoGMGoOTqIU= |
67 |
=LaFD |
68 |
-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |