Re: [gentoo-dev] */*: Mask Py2 only packages

[Aaron Bauman]

On June 26, 2020 11:08:35 AM EDT, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote:
>On Fri, Jun 26, 2020 at 10:36 AM Aaron Bauman <bman@g.o> wrote:
>>
>> On June 26, 2020 7:13:07 AM EDT, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o>
>wrote:
>> >> Of all the methods listed in the previous posts, the QA reports,
>etc.
>> >> there is no excuse individuals can't find out if their package is
>py2
>> >> only.
>> >
>> >None of those methods were posted until a day or two ago, and the
>> >python team has done nothing to actually ensure all the impacted
>> >maintainers are aware of them.  Perhaps a communication to
>> >-dev-announce with the preferred approach would be better?
>> >
>>
>> You should also look at qa-reports. Do we really need to *teach*
>others "how to fish" here? Why can't folks just ask for assistance?
>
>Just looked at it:
>
>1.  I had no idea that a list of py2-only packages was listed there.
>I don't think I've ever actually looked at that page.
>

Perfect, so you have just shown that you either didn't see the ML posts about QA tools, didn't care to ask other devs what tools are available etc. 

If history serves me right, qa-reports has existed for many years (of which I have used it) and mgorny often let's folks know about changes to it (e.g. pkgcore). 

So, thanks for proving my point that all the tooling changes, notices, ML posts, etc don't matter. Someone *will* find something to complain about. 


>2.  The report does not list maintainers, which means nobody is likely
>to know they have a package on the list.
>

Do you argue just to argue? Sad. If someone like Robin (who at one point had like 5% of the tree under his maintainer ship) complained about that I may see it worthwhile. 

Just another red herring...

>>
>> See above. Qa-reports will output a very nice list (even a graphic!)
>of such things. Anyway, yes, I do expect devs to understand their
>packages state if they maintain it. Don't be so myopic.
>
>Well, you can expect whatever you want, and then you can be frustrated
>out of your mind when 95% of devs fail to meet your expectations.
>

I am not frustrated. I will continue to perform the same in intervals to drive the removal of Py2. 

>Or you could just work with them where they're at and maybe get your
>project completed more quickly and with less effort...
>

::yawn:: see above remarks showing how folks will find a way to complain. 

>If you want people to look at a qa-report, maybe post on -dev-announce
>and ask everybody to do it?  Most people aren't going to be following
>all the tools used by the python team if they aren't python devs.
>
>> >At least some devs here seemed surprised about the masks.  Did you
>try
>> >filing a bug?
>>
>> Have you looked for said bugs?
>
>Of course.  Do you think I'd invite such an obvious reply without
>actually checking.
>
>I just went to the first complaint on this list about there not being
>a bug, and verified that there wasn't a bug.
>
>As far as I can tell there is no bug for app-misc/golly.  If I missed
>one feel free to cite it.
>
>>
>> >
>> >Masking something for all users is basically like torturing a kitten
>> >to get the attention of its owner.  It is a necessary step if the
>> >package is actually to be removed.  I don't think it is even
>allowable
>> >under our policies if no bug was filed.
>> >
>>
>> Do tell where said policy is?
>
>https://devmanual.gentoo.org/general-concepts/package-maintainers/index.html
>
>Granted, a mask isn't a package commit, but I think the spirit of the
>policy covers it.
>
>In any case, there is no reason not to communicate with a maintainer
>before touching a package.  That should involve something more than a
>generic notice that everybody should become a detective to figure out
>if they are covered by an upcoming change.  If you have a list of
>impacted packages, then just file bugs against them.
>
>>
>> Nothing is really hard about masking packages for removal...
>honestly.
>
>The complaint isn't that masks are hard on you.  The complaint is that
>it bombards users with unnecessary warnings.
>

Sadly, many users have contributed more than some devs to fix packages. I often get emails directly from users wanting to fix things. I will start forwarding them to you. 

>> The work comes in defending the position here for the few that
>complain.
>
>And how are you enjoying doing all that extra work?  Would you prefer
>if devs started opening up QA/Comrel bugs that you then have to
>formally respond to?
>

There is one open now. Seems QA hasn't spoken up yet...

>Or maybe you could try notifying devs before masking their packages?
>
>> If I filed a bug... they would complain or not respond... If I sent
>out a dev-announce they would complain or not respond.
>
>Sometimes, sure.  But at least you would have gone through due
>process, and you're unlikely to get much push back.
>
>And I suspect a number of those packages would actually get fixed.
>
>>
>> You see the fun here? Which method is effective? Mask a 100 packages
>for removal... Someone complains... A few packages get saved and 90 get
>removed... Life goes on.
>
>Would you want a dev to just mask one of your packages if they saw a
>bug in it, without bothering to open a bug?

Depends on the type of bug. Security RCE? Sure. Deprecated code/EOL interpreter? Sure. 

-- 
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