Re: [gentoo-dev] Auto adding packages to world was -> Sets vs Meta ebuilds

[Sam Jorna (wraeth)]

On 12/07/17 16:06, William L. Thomson Jr. wrote:
> On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 15:49:14 +1000
> "Sam Jorna (wraeth)" <wraeth@g.o> wrote:
>>
>> I have trouble remembering what I ate for dinner last night, let alone
>> what I may or may not have merged a week, month or year ago, or what
>> options I used when merging it.
>
> And if you used --oneshot, it is also saying you are not maintaining
> your system or ever running --depclean. Since anything you installed
> via --oneshot would be removed with --depclean.

If my concern in removing a package was whether it was a dependency, it
would make more sense to use --depclean in the first place. If I'm using
--unmerge, it's because I want the package unmerged regardless.

>>> What harm does a warning do?
>>
>> Depends on the user, which can't really be avoided, but means that
>> warnings should be clear and meaningful, otherwise they become
>> background noise.
>
> The example in the bug is as clear is it can get.
>
> !!! 'sys-devel/gcc' is a dependency of another package on your system
> or
> !!! 'sys-devel/gcc' is a package not found in system profile or world
> or
> !!! 'sys-devel/gcc' may not have been installed by you
> or
> some other message....
>
>> Such as:
>>
>> emerge --unmerge dev-python/keyring
>>  * This action can remove important packages! In order to be safer,
>> use
>>  * `emerge -pv --depclean <atom>` to check for reverse dependencies
>> before
>>  * removing packages.
>
> Didn't you just say something about meaningful output vs noise? That is
> always outputted and ends up becoming what you are saying. Funny!

And your suggesting adding more noise to it... Funny, I know.

>>>> or may have been installed as an orphan but is now a
>>>> dependency.
>>>
>>> Now being a dependency the warning would be valid.
>>
>> "Sometimes being accurate" is not the most noble of goals.
>
> What?
>
>> So the idea is to duplicate the functionality of '--depclean
>> <package>
>
> NO!!!
>
> emerge --depclean gcc
>
> is not the same as
>
> emerge --umerge gcc
>
> Depclean the user is cleaning things they are not aware of. Unmerge the
> user is removing something directly. They may think they do not need it.

No.

'--depclean' is the user removing things they are not aware of.

'--depclean foo' is the user removing something they /are/ aware of *if
it's not a dependency*.

'--unmerge foo' is the user explicitly removing something regardless of
whether it's a dependency.

Therefore, '--depclean foo' can be seen as a safe '--unmerge foo' which,
from what I understand, is what you're aiming for.

>> ' without actually checking to see if the package is a
>> dependency,
>
> Word it how ever. If the user did not install, they should be warned on
> removal of a package they did not install.

That's what the current warning to --unmerge says - removing packages
can break things, so please make sure this isn't a dependency and you
really want to remove this.

>> only whether it is listed in a set; or to check if it's a
>> dependency of /something/ and, if so, redirect the user to the
>> command they should be using anyway?
>
> You mean like emerge --unmerge does already that you pointed out
> above. After mentioning useful messages vs noise.  Again funny!

How does replacing one warning with another warning that may or may not
be meaningful ("maybe it's a dep, maybe it isn't" as opposed to "this
can be dangerous, please make sure you know what you're doing") make it
any better?

-- 
Sam Jorna (wraeth)
GnuPG ID: D6180C26