1 |
On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 12:00:59PM -0400, Rich Freeman wrote: |
2 |
> On Mon, Apr 30, 2012 at 4:05 AM, Tony "Chainsaw" Vroon |
3 |
> <chainsaw@g.o> wrote: |
4 |
> > Binaries that are essential for system boot, and must be available in |
5 |
> > single user mode go in /bin and /sbin, with their libraries in /lib. |
6 |
> > This allows for /usr to be: |
7 |
> > 1) marked read-only for NFS mounts, which some of us rely on |
8 |
> > 2) inside of an LVM2 container, allowing for / to be (very) small |
9 |
> > 3) on a squashfs filesystem, in order to save space |
10 |
> |
11 |
> These are all things easily supported with an initramfs. In fact, |
12 |
> initramfs-based solutions allow the same sorts of things to be done |
13 |
> with all the other filesystems and not just /usr. |
14 |
|
15 |
This is correct. |
16 |
|
17 |
> > Trying to second-guess my motivation, and trying to undo unanimous |
18 |
> > council votes simply because your opinion is different, really has to |
19 |
> > stop. |
20 |
> |
21 |
> I don't think anybody is trying to undo council votes - people are |
22 |
> just speculating as to what they voted on. The easiest solution is |
23 |
> for somebody to say "I'm John Smith, and I am speaking officially for |
24 |
> the council, and we agree that what was decided upon is X." |
25 |
|
26 |
Yes, this is correct. I read the log over several times and it isn't |
27 |
clear what the council actually voted on. Tony, it seems clear that you want to |
28 |
mandate that gentoo in its default configuration will support separate |
29 |
/usr without an initramfs. The thing that isn't clear is whether the |
30 |
rest of the council wants to do that. In reading the log, there was |
31 |
definite uncertainty about whether the vote was just to continue |
32 |
supporting /usr as a separate configuration or to mandate how |
33 |
separate /usr was going to be supported in the default configuration. |
34 |
|
35 |
> It seems pretty clear that everybody wants to support a separate /usr. |
36 |
> We even have multiple supported solutions, including an initramfs, a |
37 |
> use flag on busybox, and I believe somebody posted a script that can |
38 |
> be run during early boot to mount /usr. It sounds like the only thing |
39 |
> that isn't supported is "doing nothing" - but with Gentoo if you "do |
40 |
> nothing" you don't get an installed system that works on any |
41 |
> configuration. |
42 |
|
43 |
Rich, you are absolutely right. There is not an argument anywhere about |
44 |
whether separate /usr is supported. |
45 |
|
46 |
> > I feel a lot better about vapier's pragmatic approach then I do about |
47 |
> > udev/systemd upstream's ability and motivation to support current |
48 |
> > systems. If you had any doubts about whether udev was part of the |
49 |
> > problem, consider what tarball you will have to extract it from in future. |
50 |
> |
51 |
> Well, if others feel differently about the direction udev is taking, |
52 |
> they can of course just fork it. |
53 |
> |
54 |
> I can't say I'm terribly excited about the amount of vertical |
55 |
> integration going on. I don't run Gnome, and I don't run Unity. I |
56 |
> really do prefer the unix way. |
57 |
|
58 |
I'm not excited about parts of the vertical integration either. Newer |
59 |
versions of gnome are going to start requiring systemd from what I've |
60 |
heard, and I disagree with that level of integration. |
61 |
|
62 |
> However, I don't contribute much to those upstream projects, and I |
63 |
> don't see much value in telling a bunch of people who do that they are |
64 |
> doing it wrong. I don't like how Google develops Android in the dark, |
65 |
> or that they bundle 1GB of third-party stuff in their Chromium source |
66 |
> and distribute a favored binary-only derivative. However, I do like |
67 |
> that they're giving me all of that stuff essentially for free, and so |
68 |
> beyond the odd blog post I try not to give them too hard a time. |
69 |
> |
70 |
> In the same way I think we need to give the maintainers of these |
71 |
> projects in Gentoo some slack, or join those projects and help them to |
72 |
> address your needs. It is a lot easier to tell others what to do than |
73 |
> to help make it happen, but a volunteer-based project like Gentoo |
74 |
> needs the latter more than the former. |
75 |
|
76 |
Agreed. |
77 |
|
78 |
William |