Re: [gentoo-dev] Anti-spam changes: proposal to drop spammy mail

[C Bergström]

On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote:
> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 11:21 AM, C Bergström <cbergstrom@×××××××××.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 9:59 PM, Rich Freeman <rich0@g.o> wrote:
>>> On Mon, May 11, 2015 at 10:44 AM, C Bergström <cbergstrom@×××××××××.com> wrote:
>>>> What I'm describing is not "gmail" - it's everything that gmail has
>>>> and offers, but @gentoo.org domain. I'm using it right now in fact.
>>>>
>>>> You get the web interface, IMAP, POP, 2 token authentication (if you
>>>> want to enabled it) and lots of other things. etc etc
>>>
>>> How about the source code?
>>
>> Do you have the source for github?
>>
>
> That would be why I point out that we have debates over its use.
> Right now we're accepting it mainly because it is an alternative.  I
> suspect there would be more concern if it were proposed that we move
> to it exclusively.
>
>>
>> There are "free" alternatives and this is the exact same thing as
>> github. IMAP and POP are comparable to git as google hosted apps is
>> comparable to github.
>
> I think that is actually your best line of argument.  They're just a
> black box that accepts SMTP and makes available POP, and that is all
> Gentoo uses.  They just happen to offer an MUA on the side, which g.o
> devs/staff can use at their discretion.
>
> I'm not convinced it is the way to go, all the same.
>
>> There's a line between being passionate and
>> ignoring a sensible good alternative. I can't say where to draw that
>> line, but imho I hope pragmatic people will take a look instead of
>> just dismissing it.
>>
>
> I have nothing against Gmail and I'm composing this email using it.
> Even so, unless we were simply unable to host our own mail, I'm not
> sure I'd advocate moving g.o over to Google apps.
>
> That doesn't mean I'm not willing to be pragmatic.  I just think that
> making a change like this really should be done only out of necessity.
> There are other Gentoo services that I'd sooner see go than email.
>
>> Oh and btw - the whole problem comes because people are forwarding to
>> gmail. Is that open source? It's clear a large number of people
>> already use and depend on the exact same service I'm suggesting. How
>> on earth could those same people object... (I don't see the open
>> source communit up in arms over yahoo mail and gmail..)
>
> I can use Gmail personally and still object to forcing everybody else
> to use it.  I don't see that as hypocrisy at all.
>
>> Do you own a phone that connects to this email? Android, iOS.. etc
>> aren't "open source", but somehow we survive..
>
> Android is more or less open-source.  There are some blobs in it, but
> not all that much more than you'd find on a typical PC running Gentoo.
> But again, Gentoo doesn't provide cell phones or require that anybody
> own one.  If somebody wants to read dev.g.o on their iPhone, I don't
> have a problem with that.  If we were to force anybody who wanted to
> subscribe to dev.g.o to own an iPhone I would have a problem with
> that.

Android is much less open than people think or want to believe.
Entirely besides that point - I hope this could be proposed and at
least looked at as an option. I have ran a postfix setup with
graylisting and spam filtering. It's quite a bit of maintenance to
ensure it's done in a high quality manner. The time/cost/energy in
that vs something which "just works" is hard to pass up. I realize
philosophies and religions differ - I respect your view and hope a
good solution is found in the end. If not now - I suspect at some
point gentoo will relinquish their email to a service provider..