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On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 20:27 +0100, Steve Long wrote: |
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> |
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> Hmm I thought the Council had authority to approve expenditure? |
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|
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Council has no direct access to bank account or funds. |
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> While I agree that the Trustees have the legal responsibility, and would |
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> welcome their actively engaging with financial, legal, personnel and indeed |
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> social matters, I see that as *support* for the core work, not _authority_ |
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> over it. Agreed, they are at the top of that hierarchy, as you put it, |
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> certainly in legal terms wrt IP. I still think this is more like a |
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> Supervisory Board (including the Chair and non-execs) with the Council as |
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> Executive Board. |
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|
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There is allot of other executive tasks that don't really fall under the |
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council. Where does PR fall? Where does Events fall? We are supposed to |
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be promoting education, where does that lie? What about elections? The |
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Gentoo store? GenCon? :) |
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|
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Eventually I would like to see officers split from the board. The board |
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will take on a purely oversight and advisory role then. Also perform |
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judiciary tasks if necessary. While day to day things are done by |
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Officers, and Council. Council pretty much running the project, and in |
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control of anything and everything technical. Which is a majority of the |
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project, but not all of it. |
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|
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But there is a TON of stuff that falls outside of that. Currently by the |
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wayside. |
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|
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> Well the disclaimer of any and all warranty, express or implied, contained in |
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> the GPL means there can be no legal comeback for any technical failings as |
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> far as I can see. What technical screw-up could possibly happen that would |
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> incur liability for the Foundation? |
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No clue offhand, would have to go look at who is suing RedHat, or Novel |
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or others. If there are any. Likely a broad example, but point was if |
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there needs to be representation for Gentoo. It's the Foundation that |
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legally represents the project. |
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|
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|
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> I thought Gentoo already has agreements with other organisations? |
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|
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What organizations and what agreements? Those things should be made |
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publicly available. To date, I can't get any info from any but one of |
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our sponsors/donors, Bytemark. So what ever agreements with any |
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organizations that do or don't exist. We are not privy to that |
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information. |
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|
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It does have me a little concerned over infra stuff. Being as how these |
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agreements aren't public. Contacting sponsors to get such information. |
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Seems to have allot of resistance for the agreements to be official, |
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and/or public. None of which I like at all. |
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|
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Beyond that, we have no agreements or associations with Vendors ATM. If |
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anyone has any knowledge or information there. I would hope they would |
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disclose it to all, or at least the board of trustees. |
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|
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> > Again normal organization like you would see in any normal business |
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> > entity. Which the Gentoo Foundation is a business entity, |
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> |
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> It's not though is it? It's a charity, based on volunteer work. |
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|
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Gentoo Foundation, Inc. |
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http://www.nmprc.state.nm.us/cgi-bin/prcdtl.cgi?2463313+GENTOO+FOUNDATION+INC |
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|
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On paper, the Gentoo Foundation is a legal entity, NPO just like any |
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other on file. |
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|
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> > so should have some structure to reflect that. Given how chaotic at times |
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> > our existing structure is, or lack there of. I can see it making a huge |
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> > difference in the long run. |
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> > |
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> My feeling is that that risks losing the sense of "creative anarchy" that |
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> others have mentioned to me as being a bonus of working on Gentoo. Simply |
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> put, Gentoo devs are not beholden to any company, nor deadlines, and I |
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> imagine quite like it like that (I certainly enjoy the fact that I am not |
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> answerable to anyone for the bits of Free work I do), so expecting them |
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> collectively to form a "business entity" is unrealistic, perhaps. |
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No, in fact my ideas for Gentoo to operate with more structure are 100% |
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so Gentoo can stand on it's own two feet. Answer to no one but the |
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community, and it's mission. Be fully funded and not dependent on any |
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one or more sponsors, donors, etc. Not risk the chance of losing infra |
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support if a person changes jobs. Or company is unable to continue |
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supporting the project etc. |
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|
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For example, what could RH be if it was just what it is now. But with no |
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investors, share holders. Deadlines, profit margins, etc. In short, a |
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technical RedCross that puts out the best OS in the world, for free :) |
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|
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> Businesses using the technology, as you have mentioned, are another matter, |
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> similarly to any other distro, and should imo pay a regular fee of some sort |
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> to Gentoo. (If it doesn't help their bottom line, they wouldn't be using it.) |
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|
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Yes, and that's part of how I see Gentoo being able to fund itself. |
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Possible in one form, any business wishing to be a member of the |
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foundation. Would pay to do so, amount based on the size of the entity. |
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3 or so tiers. |
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I have spoken with others locally looking to possible make products and |
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service offerings on top of Gentoo. Which they would feel obligated to |
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give back to the foundation. Not as a donation, but in a form of |
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investment. To secure the future of something they depend on. Which is |
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also my interest. |
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|
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> HR, Finance, Legal, IT et al are only there to support the main |
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> product/workflow in any corp. I'm curious as to what else, besides the |
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> distro, you see as Gentoo's product? |
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|
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Well product wise very little, unless you factor in some store items. |
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But that's pretty moot. It's more a service to the community, than |
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product per say. Granted we put out the Gentoo distro. But in doing so, |
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there is participation in countless other products. Providing allot of |
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service to man kind, in a sense. |
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What's the RedCross's products :) |
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> I agree the Council should answer to the Foundation, and vice versa, most |
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> specifically in the Foundation's case wrt how their work supports the |
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> mainline activity. And I'm all in favour of the Trustees taking on social and |
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> political issues, as well as the Financial, Legal and so on. |
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It's just about greater collaboration, organization, delegation and |
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separation of duties. Checks and balances, etc. It's not trying to take |
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power from the council. In fact the opposite, making the council better. |
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Making all things to do with Gentoo better. |
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> Yes and that technical stuff is not simply industry-specific technologies to |
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> support some other activity: it's the whole of the activity of the |
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> organisation. |
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But technical things is not all there is to Gentoo. Listen to most |
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interviews, or postings. There are so many ways people can help the |
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project in non-technical ways. Yes at it's core Gentoo is a piece of |
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technology. But there is allot to any organization of size, and Gentoo |
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has put on some size. |
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> Please do check out the Supervisory Board link if you haven't; it's a model |
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> that's much more prevalent in the EU than the US, and I feel it's much closer |
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> to the intent of the Foundation than your suggestions for the Trustees as the |
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> Executive Board. |
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When the board can be separated from the Officers. It will be more of |
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that. But officers will then have other duties and responsibilities. |
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Which presently both are kinda mixed together. Some Gentoo Foundation |
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docs says there aren't positions like Treasurer, etc. But under the law, |
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an organization must have officers. |
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|
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-- |
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William L. Thomson Jr. |
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amd64/Java/Trustees |
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Gentoo Foundation |