[gentoo-project] Re: Burden of proof

[Daniel Robbins]

More burden-of-proof related stuff. Please fact-check this. This is an
excerpt from a 1:1 IRC conversation between me an mgorny, regarding
shentino:

2017-12-23 08:34:40     mgorny  so, without skipping into details, i'm
going to just note that i have seen a lot of evidence to support what i'm
going to say
2017-12-23 08:35:14     mgorny  shentino is basically some guy who wants to
work at Google, and heard that Google recruiters are monitoring Gentoo, so
he wants to join
2017-12-23 08:35:52     mgorny  except he has zero skills, zero will to do
anything and is basically behaving like a elementary school child
2017-12-23 08:36:56     mgorny  he has had over a dozen potential mentors,
lying to every one that he doesn't know why the previous one rejected him
2017-12-23 08:37:04     drobbins        it seems like his motivation is
kind of secondary, we can only guess as to what his motivation might be
2017-12-23 08:37:29     mgorny  every time he doesn't know what to do, the
mentors spends a lot of time suggesting options, he promises he'll do
something
2017-12-23 08:37:41     mgorny  but he never ever does anything, except for
talking more and throwing more excuses
2017-12-23 08:37:49     drobbins        I had a guy like this in funtoo
2017-12-23 08:38:00     drobbins        he was a nice guy, always trying to
be friendly and self-deprecating
2017-12-23 08:38:06     drobbins        but he never DID anything
2017-12-23 08:38:08     drobbins        he just said he would
2017-12-23 08:38:29     drobbins        and he wanted to have a personal
relationship with me. He was kind of a pathetic person, not saying that to
insult him, that was just how he acted
2017-12-23 08:38:37     mgorny  the only thing he's really ever done was
picking on various rules he found on wiki
2017-12-23 08:38:56     mgorny  he admitted to me personally that he's
looking for a loophole to get into gentoo without actually contributing


On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Daniel Robbins <drobbins@××××××.org> wrote:

> I am going to post some things I have seen from a Council member, and
> people can judge whether this is appropriate. First, mgorny derails a
> technical conversation to lecture and berate me, saying "now I see why
> you've never returned to Gentoo", in #gentoo-portage:
>
> [technical conversation.... ]
>
> 2018-02-24 04:48:54     [Arfrever]      drobbins: See this example
> (version-conditional exec()): https://gitweb.gentoo.org/
> proj/portage.git/tree/pym/portage/process.py?id=
> 39c797992bcdf8403521d8b61bb3e592135b3307#n196
> 2018-02-24 05:28:01     drobbins        [Arfrever]: yes, so that's all
> code that can now be removed.
> 2018-02-24 05:28:19     drobbins        the concept is that it adds to the
> LOC count, doesn't add any functionality
> 2018-02-24 05:28:46     drobbins        it's an awesome exercise in
> backwards compatibility that doesn't have a large benefit on a distro that
> is moving to 3.6.
> 2018-02-24 05:56:09     -->     zmedico (~quassel@gentoo/developer/zmedico)
> has joined #gentoo-portage
> 2018-02-24 07:32:21     --      perfinio1 is now known as perfinion
> 2018-02-24 08:24:51     mgorny  drobbins: are you convinced someone will
> actually remove all the compat cruft?
> 2018-02-24 08:25:12     mgorny  portage is practically unmaintained, so
> i'd rather not make major changes like making upgrades a nightmare for the
> sake of few patches
> 2018-02-24 08:32:44     <--     Shentino (~Shentino@unaffiliated/shentino)
> has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
> 2018-02-24 08:33:05     -->     Shentino (~Shentino@unaffiliated/shentino)
> has joined #gentoo-portage
> 2018-02-24 08:33:41     drobbins        mgorny: yes, I am convinced, and
> it just allows a lot of compat code to be dropped.
> 2018-02-24 08:35:01     drobbins        there is additional work and
> complexity involved in adding functionality and maintaining compatibility
> with 2.7
> 2018-02-24 08:35:23     drobbins        so if you feel that portage is not
> maintained enough, this will help reduce the work load
> 2018-02-24 08:35:49     mgorny  'helping reduce the work load' does not
> imply the work will actually happen
> 2018-02-24 08:35:58     mgorny  most important goals so far don't have
> much py2/py3 trouble
> 2018-02-24 08:36:19     mgorny  and adding extra complexity to make things
> faster when they need to be made correct first is not helpful
> 2018-02-24 08:36:34     drobbins        there is an effort to integrate
> async functionality into portage which is hampered by 2.7 compatibility
> 2018-02-24 08:36:54     drobbins        it actually reduces complexity,
> but whatever. It seems you are convinced it's a bad idea.
> 2018-02-24 08:38:57     drobbins        standardizing on the official
> async implementation rather than using a home-grown one for compatibility
> with python 2.7 seems like a win to me
> 2018-02-24 08:39:11     mgorny  i'd like to see async working correctly
> first
> 2018-02-24 08:39:25     drobbins        what do you mean?
> 2018-02-24 08:39:36     mgorny  there is the socks proxy for distcc
> written using async, and it has serious exception handling problems
> 2018-02-24 08:39:48     mgorny  or signal handling
> 2018-02-24 08:40:24     <--     Zero_Chaos (~zerochaos@gentoo/developer/pentoo/zerochaos)
> has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
> 2018-02-24 08:40:53     drobbins        I don't think that is indicative
> of the python async implementation
>
> [mgorny loses it....]
>
> 2018-02-24 08:41:02     -->     Zero_Chaos (~zerochaos@gentoo/developer/pentoo/zerochaos)
> has joined #gentoo-portage
> 2018-02-24 08:41:41     mgorny  w/e
> 2018-02-24 08:41:47     mgorny  portage API is a horrible pile of cheap
> hacks
> 2018-02-24 08:41:53     mgorny  that needs to be fixed to make it useful
> 2018-02-24 08:42:02     mgorny  not added more hacks so that cheap hacks
> may be a bit faster
> 2018-02-24 08:42:11     drobbins        agreed
> 2018-02-24 08:42:25     drobbins        that is a good reason to use an
> actual language feature instead of a roll-your-own async implementation
> 2018-02-24 08:42:36     drobbins        since one is now available.
> 2018-02-24 08:43:02     drobbins        I needed to get my tree
> regeneration going a lot faster. It now takes 65 mins instead of over 4
> hours.
> 2018-02-24 08:43:34     drobbins        I think that zmedico is trying to
> do things not as hacks but have a strategic plan for implementing new
> technology
> 2018-02-24 08:43:51     mgorny  so you had a broken scripting, and instead
> of fixing it you're adding hacks to portage to workaround your problem
> 2018-02-24 08:44:03     drobbins        how was my scripting broken?
> 2018-02-24 08:44:07     drobbins        since you know so much
> 2018-02-24 08:44:07     mgorny  (protip: egencache has --jobs)
> 2018-02-24 08:44:32     drobbins        protip: egencache does not
> function when you are working on assembling trees that you haven't
> generated metadata for yet
> 2018-02-24 08:44:47     mgorny  then you should've generated the metadata
> first
> 2018-02-24 08:44:54     drobbins        and protip: don't protip me
> 2018-02-24 08:45:19     mgorny  (or used trees with metadata)
> 2018-02-24 08:45:19     mgorny  (or shouldn't be assembling stuff in the
> first place)
> 2018-02-24 08:45:19     drobbins        oh yes, you are right.
> 2018-02-24 08:45:28     drobbins        thanks for the correction ;)
> 2018-02-24 08:45:55     mgorny  the multi-repo model has implemented for a
> reason
> 2018-02-24 08:45:56     drobbins        anything else you'd like to
> correct me on?
> 2018-02-24 08:46:49     mgorny  your attitude
> 2018-02-24 08:47:04     drobbins        what is wrong with my attitude?
> 2018-02-24 08:47:15     mgorny  now i see why you've never really returned
> to gentoo
> 2018-02-24 08:47:21      *      mgorny out
> 2018-02-24 08:47:23     <--     mgorny (~quassel@gentoo/developer/mgorny)
> has left #gentoo-portage ("http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably.
> Anywhere.")
> 2018-02-24 08:48:58     drobbins        I agree, mgorny out.
> 2018-02-24 08:49:46     drobbins        why does he get so pissed all the
> time?
> 2018-02-24 08:51:35     zmedico that's a good question
> 2018-02-24 08:52:07     slyfox_ i don't think it's you specifically
> 2018-02-24 08:53:56     zmedico psychology is a complex topic
>
>