Re: [gentoo-project] Re: Burden of proof

[Christopher Díaz Riveros]

Daniel,

El lun, 02-04-2018 a las 00:19 -0600, Daniel Robbins escribió:
> More burden-of-proof related stuff. Please fact-check this. This is
> an excerpt from a 1:1 IRC conversation between me an mgorny,
> regarding shentino:
>
> 2017-12-23 08:34:40     mgorny  so, without skipping into details,
> i'm going to just note that i have seen a lot of evidence to support
> what i'm going to say
> 2017-12-23 08:35:14     mgorny  shentino is basically some guy who
> wants to work at Google, and heard that Google recruiters are
> monitoring Gentoo, so he wants to join
> 2017-12-23 08:35:52     mgorny  except he has zero skills, zero will
> to do anything and is basically behaving like a elementary school
> child
> 2017-12-23 08:36:56     mgorny  he has had over a dozen potential
> mentors, lying to every one that he doesn't know why the previous one
> rejected him
> 2017-12-23 08:37:04     drobbins        it seems like his motivation
> is kind of secondary, we can only guess as to what his motivation
> might be
> 2017-12-23 08:37:29     mgorny  every time he doesn't know what to
> do, the mentors spends a lot of time suggesting options, he promises
> he'll do something
> 2017-12-23 08:37:41     mgorny  but he never ever does anything,
> except for talking more and throwing more excuses
> 2017-12-23 08:37:49     drobbins        I had a guy like this in
> funtoo
> 2017-12-23 08:38:00     drobbins        he was a nice guy, always
> trying to be friendly and self-deprecating
> 2017-12-23 08:38:06     drobbins        but he never DID anything
> 2017-12-23 08:38:08     drobbins        he just said he would
> 2017-12-23 08:38:29     drobbins        and he wanted to have a
> personal relationship with me. He was kind of a pathetic person, not
> saying that to insult him, that was just how he acted
> 2017-12-23 08:38:37     mgorny  the only thing he's really ever done
> was picking on various rules he found on wiki
> 2017-12-23 08:38:56     mgorny  he admitted to me personally that
> he's looking for a loophole to get into gentoo without actually
> contributing
>

This is a totally off-topic post, not just from the list, but as a
common sense behaviour. If someone trusts you enough to pm something to
you, right or wrong, you can't show private conversations in the
mailing list, this is something for ComRel to review, in case someone
really tries solve the issue.

> On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 12:13 AM, Daniel Robbins <drobbins@××××××.org>
> wrote:
> > I am going to post some things I have seen from a Council member,
> > and people can judge whether this is appropriate. First, mgorny
> > derails a technical conversation to lecture and berate me, saying
> > "now I see why you've never returned to Gentoo", in #gentoo-
> > portage:
> >

What I can see from this is that you really have some personal issues
with mgorny. Things that you should, as ComRel, stated: "try to solve
the issue among themselves in a civil manner before they reach out to
Community Relations"[1]. But since it's obvious that you haven't, this
should escalate to ComRel.

> > [technical conversation.... ]
> >
> > 2018-02-24 04:48:54     [Arfrever]      drobbins: See this example
> > (version-conditional exec()): https://gitweb.gentoo.org/proj/portag
> > e.git/tree/pym/portage/process.py?id=39c797992bcdf8403521d8b61bb3e5
> > 92135b3307#n196
> > 2018-02-24 05:28:01     drobbins        [Arfrever]: yes, so that's
> > all code that can now be removed.
> > 2018-02-24 05:28:19     drobbins        the concept is that it adds
> > to the LOC count, doesn't add any functionality
> > 2018-02-24 05:28:46     drobbins        it's an awesome exercise in
> > backwards compatibility that doesn't have a large benefit on a
> > distro that is moving to 3.6.
> > 2018-02-24 05:56:09     -->     zmedico (~quassel@gentoo/developer/
> > zmedico) has joined #gentoo-portage
> > 2018-02-24 07:32:21     --      perfinio1 is now known as perfinion
> > 2018-02-24 08:24:51     mgorny  drobbins: are you convinced someone
> > will actually remove all the compat cruft?
> > 2018-02-24 08:25:12     mgorny  portage is practically
> > unmaintained, so i'd rather not make major changes like making
> > upgrades a nightmare for the sake of few patches
> > 2018-02-24 08:32:44     <--     Shentino (~Shentino@unaffiliated/sh
> > entino) has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
> > 2018-02-24 08:33:05     -->     Shentino (~Shentino@unaffiliated/sh
> > entino) has joined #gentoo-portage
> > 2018-02-24 08:33:41     drobbins        mgorny: yes, I am
> > convinced, and it just allows a lot of compat code to be dropped.
> > 2018-02-24 08:35:01     drobbins        there is additional work
> > and complexity involved in adding functionality and maintaining
> > compatibility with 2.7
> > 2018-02-24 08:35:23     drobbins        so if you feel that portage
> > is not maintained enough, this will help reduce the work load
> > 2018-02-24 08:35:49     mgorny  'helping reduce the work load' does
> > not imply the work will actually happen
> > 2018-02-24 08:35:58     mgorny  most important goals so far don't
> > have much py2/py3 trouble
> > 2018-02-24 08:36:19     mgorny  and adding extra complexity to make
> > things faster when they need to be made correct first is not
> > helpful
> > 2018-02-24 08:36:34     drobbins        there is an effort to
> > integrate async functionality into portage which is hampered by 2.7
> > compatibility
> > 2018-02-24 08:36:54     drobbins        it actually reduces
> > complexity, but whatever. It seems you are convinced it's a bad
> > idea.
> > 2018-02-24 08:38:57     drobbins        standardizing on the
> > official async implementation rather than using a home-grown one
> > for compatibility with python 2.7 seems like a win to me
> > 2018-02-24 08:39:11     mgorny  i'd like to see async working
> > correctly first
> > 2018-02-24 08:39:25     drobbins        what do you mean?
> > 2018-02-24 08:39:36     mgorny  there is the socks proxy for distcc
> > written using async, and it has serious exception handling problems
> > 2018-02-24 08:39:48     mgorny  or signal handling
> > 2018-02-24 08:40:24     <--     Zero_Chaos (~zerochaos@gentoo/devel
> > oper/pentoo/zerochaos) has quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
> > 2018-02-24 08:40:53     drobbins        I don't think that is
> > indicative of the python async implementation
> >
> > [mgorny loses it....]
> >
> > 2018-02-24 08:41:02     -->     Zero_Chaos (~zerochaos@gentoo/devel
> > oper/pentoo/zerochaos) has joined #gentoo-portage
> > 2018-02-24 08:41:41     mgorny  w/e
> > 2018-02-24 08:41:47     mgorny  portage API is a horrible pile of
> > cheap hacks
> > 2018-02-24 08:41:53     mgorny  that needs to be fixed to make it
> > useful
> > 2018-02-24 08:42:02     mgorny  not added more hacks so that cheap
> > hacks may be a bit faster
> > 2018-02-24 08:42:11     drobbins        agreed
> > 2018-02-24 08:42:25     drobbins        that is a good reason to
> > use an actual language feature instead of a roll-your-own async
> > implementation
> > 2018-02-24 08:42:36     drobbins        since one is now available.
> > 2018-02-24 08:43:02     drobbins        I needed to get my tree
> > regeneration going a lot faster. It now takes 65 mins instead of
> > over 4 hours.
> > 2018-02-24 08:43:34     drobbins        I think that zmedico is
> > trying to do things not as hacks but have a strategic plan for
> > implementing new technology
> > 2018-02-24 08:43:51     mgorny  so you had a broken scripting, and
> > instead of fixing it you're adding hacks to portage to workaround
> > your problem
> > 2018-02-24 08:44:03     drobbins        how was my scripting
> > broken?
> > 2018-02-24 08:44:07     drobbins        since you know so much
> > 2018-02-24 08:44:07     mgorny  (protip: egencache has --jobs)
> > 2018-02-24 08:44:32     drobbins        protip: egencache does not
> > function when you are working on assembling trees that you haven't
> > generated metadata for yet
> > 2018-02-24 08:44:47     mgorny  then you should've generated the
> > metadata first
> > 2018-02-24 08:44:54     drobbins        and protip: don't protip me
> > 2018-02-24 08:45:19     mgorny  (or used trees with metadata)
> > 2018-02-24 08:45:19     mgorny  (or shouldn't be assembling stuff
> > in the first place)
> > 2018-02-24 08:45:19     drobbins        oh yes, you are right.
> > 2018-02-24 08:45:28     drobbins        thanks for the correction
> > ;)
> > 2018-02-24 08:45:55     mgorny  the multi-repo model has
> > implemented for a reason
> > 2018-02-24 08:45:56     drobbins        anything else you'd like to
> > correct me on?
> > 2018-02-24 08:46:49     mgorny  your attitude
> > 2018-02-24 08:47:04     drobbins        what is wrong with my
> > attitude?
> > 2018-02-24 08:47:15     mgorny  now i see why you've never really
> > returned to gentoo
> > 2018-02-24 08:47:21      *      mgorny out
> > 2018-02-24 08:47:23     <--     mgorny
> > (~quassel@gentoo/developer/mgorny) has left #gentoo-portage ("http:
> > //quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.")
> > 2018-02-24 08:48:58     drobbins        I agree, mgorny out.
> > 2018-02-24 08:49:46     drobbins        why does he get so pissed
> > all the time?
> > 2018-02-24 08:51:35     zmedico that's a good question
> > 2018-02-24 08:52:07     slyfox_ i don't think it's you specifically
> > 2018-02-24 08:53:56     zmedico psychology is a complex topic

as Zac and Sergei stated, pshycology is complex, and this wasn't
supposed to be an 'against drobbins' attack.

You need to understand that people in Council, Trustees, ComRel, and
any other project in Gentoo are volunteers, they offer time and work
for free, and the most important thing, they are *humans*. 

_You_ can say that this is your Burden of proof that mgorny is not
capable of being a Council member, but in the same line, _your post_
shows that you are neither in position to be a good Council member or
project lead, at least that's just _my_ opinion about this post.

[1]:https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:ComRel#When_should_community_r
elations_be_involved.3F
-- 
Christopher Díaz Riveros
Gentoo Linux Developer
Gentoo Security Project Lead
GPG Fingerprint: E517 5ECB 8152 98E4 FEBC  2BAA 4DBB D10F 0FDD 2547