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On Thu, Jul 4, 2019 at 1:05 AM Kristian Fiskerstrand <k_f@g.o> wrote: |
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|
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> On 7/4/19 4:14 AM, Robin H. Johnson wrote: |
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> > I realize that there is only a short period left in the election, but |
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> > I've been busy with IRL issues, and mgorny's trustee manifesto [1] |
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> ascribed |
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> > something to the Council members that concerned me; there's one |
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> > additional good question for the Council that I'll close with. |
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> > |
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> > 1. Points 1a&1c of mgorny's manifesto imply that the council can |
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> > unilaterally prevent support of any given package in Gentoo, and |
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> > basically remove the package from the distribution. |
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> > |
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> > This is despite any developers that may wish to support the package. |
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> > |
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> > What's your opinion of the council using this offensively against |
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> > packages? As a hypothetical, say systemd-ng comes about, with an even |
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> > worse opinionated choices than those presently in systemd. Should the |
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> > council be able to force support for openrc & systemd stop? |
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> |
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> Its definitely within the purview of the council to do it, but in most |
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> cases Gentoo is about flexibility so you don't want to. There are |
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> scenarios where you would have to consider it, though, e.g large impacts |
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> on others work (project out of scope), security issues , etc. |
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> |
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|
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Clearly someone in Gentoo has this power, because in the end we choose who |
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has access to the means of production (nominally the mailing lists, irc, |
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bugzilla, git, etc..) |
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There is a question of centrality (should it be solely the council) vs some |
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other facility. If you literally read the GLEP[0] it makes it pretty clear |
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that: |
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1) The council is responsible for global issues. |
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2) Project leads still have some responsibility to their specific area. |
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3) Disciplinary actions can be appealed to the council. |
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If you were an originalist[2] and the council decided that |
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"mail-client/novell-groupwise-client"[1] was not suitable for the tree; I |
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wouldn't really expect the Council to have any particular say over this. |
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Not that they could not formulate an argument, but that literally their |
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purview does not extend here. This is explicitly called out in the GLEP |
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itself: |
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"Any dev may create a new project just by creating a new project page on |
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the wiki.gentoo.org (see [2]) and sending a Request For Comments (RFC) |
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e-mail to gentoo-dev. Note that this GLEP does not provide for a way for |
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the community at large to block a new project, even if the comments are |
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wholly negative." |
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I struggle to reconcile this text from GLEP 39 with the operational policy |
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that the "Council can do whatever they want and they are the ultimately |
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authority on ::gentoo." |
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|
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Ultimately I think this is part of the point that Robin is raising and is a |
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key goal / right of Gentoo; because I do not think the council's purview |
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extends this far. |
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Note that (1) above is pretty vague, which is where i think all the leeway |
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comes into place in terms of the power the community lets the council have |
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(regardless of the actual text of the GLEP). It reminds me of the Commerce |
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Clause[3] in the US where the literal text of the amendment gives the |
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government broad regulatory authority. In the case of Gentoo, the Council's |
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authority extends only so far as the community tolerates them classifying |
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problems as 'global' (which is their clear purview) vs a local problem, |
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where its clearly the domain of a project lead or individual developer. I |
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don't expect a clearly written policy to cover all the ground here (because |
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there is too much ground to cover.) |
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|
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-A |
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|
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[0] https://www.gentoo.org/glep/glep-0039.html |
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[1] I randomly picked this package as an example. |
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[2] For the record, I am not, but I can certainly see how others might be. |
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[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commerce_Clause |
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> > |
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> > 2. As an additional point, can you try to give your version of a simple |
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> > statement on the legal liabilities that the Council as a whole, and |
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> > the Council members as individuals, have for their actions? |
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> > |
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> |
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> Council is no legal entity, so there is no as a whole, the individual |
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> legal liability is somewhat limited as there is no fiduciary duty etc |
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> arising due to this; which means no negligence claims etc.. So basically |
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> you're left with whatever else you can be sued for as an individual, but |
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> you're in a more profiled position so it is possibly more likely that |
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> you will face it by some angry internet people... |
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> |
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|
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> -- |
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> Kristian Fiskerstrand |
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> OpenPGP keyblock reachable at hkp://pool.sks-keyservers.net |
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> fpr:94CB AFDD 3034 5109 5618 35AA 0B7F 8B60 E3ED FAE3 |
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> |
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> |