Re: [gentoo-project] ComRel / disciplinary action reform proposal

[William L. Thomson Jr.]

On Tuesday, January 17, 2017 3:20:13 PM EST Rich Freeman wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 2:40 PM, William L. Thomson Jr.
>
> <wlt-ml@××××××.com> wrote:
> > I think all of that is a waste of everyone's time. I also see it as futile
> > for many reasons I stated, even if an appeal is won. It does not make
> > others forget the past, or start liking someone they do not.
>
> Well, then, I'm not sure why you're still here.

 I have a multitude of reasons. I hold out some hope that maybe someday things 
will change. If not I have my own interest and benefit outside, as I suspect 
most in the community do.

Also to prove a point in a way. Like the email stuff in 2016 was some what to 
prove that even by keeping someone out as a developer. You cannot prevent 
certain situation. Mailing lists noise was part of the most recent comment as 
for why I am not fit in 2015. Despite not being on any in years. If I was being 
accused of such, I might as well live up to it. At the same time show it 
cannot be prevented from the outside or in. Thus moderation is futile and does 
not address the real issue or resolve anything.

At the same time, had I been able to return in 2015. None of the 2016 events 
would have taken place. Showing once again how Comrel creates issues, rather 
than resolving them. Plus I had held allot of this in for years. It is not 
good for me, so better I let it out.

> > Problems are much bigger and deeper than anything someone could appeal.
> > How
> > does my reputation get appealed? Being painted as an outcast by a minority
> > and how I am treated, provoked in ways others are not.
>
> Has anybody divulged any information publicly which damaged your
> reputation?

The information that is public, how I am responded to, and for example talked 
about recently on list after ban is all evidence. If you Google my name and 
Gentoo, my dev bug will come up as another example.

Every little bit surely does not help ones reputation. More so when the past 
is never forgiven or erased. Such that they make events and misconceptions 
perpetuate years after any initial issue. Which many have become much larger.

> I've been trying to be careful to only repeat allegations
> that you have yourself posted, without confirming whether or not they
> are actually accurate.

Most all is publicly available and I have provided links. Starting with my 
very first post[1]. It takes time to do the research. That was the problem in 
2008. The back log of drama has grown over the years. If people would not 
spend the time in 2008 when it was smaller. No way they will be able to follow     
it over many years.

> This is a big reason for the policy about not
> publicly announcing disciplinary actions.  We DON'T want to harm the
> reputations of others.  Now, if they go ruining their own reputations
> by posting about them, that is outside our control.

You do not get it. No matter what you conceal, people still see things. No 
matter what you call a moderation, suspension, away, etc. It tends to be seen. 
These things do not happen in a vacuum. In fact most every issue likely starts 
in a public medium. Which that alone will show some trail.

Problem with concealing things is you need to conceal it all, every bit, 
piece, and trail. That is impossible with a public community around an open 
source project. Which is why less should be made private. I would think it all 
needs to be made public, nothing should be private.

HOWEVER, ones own actions should be damage enough to their reputation. Others 
do not need to police them to do that harm. Which means disciplinary action 
should be avoided as it only further adds to such. That volunteers are being 
disciplined is something I am VERY against.

If one is miss-behaving others will see that. Taking disciplinary action in 
any form will only harm someones reputation. It can even harm the reputation 
of those enacting the discipline. Not to mention the project as a whole.

Why I feel a higher road needs to be taken. People need to work with others to 
resolve any issue. Such that disciplinary actions are never taken. I have 
really never seen such a case where it is really necessary. Short of common 
sense stuff. Most major issues likely have other solutions.

I have shown examples of other and what I feel is better ways of doing things. 
Others refuse to consider such and take a different harsh technical approach 
to a human problem. For example[2]

I have provided countless suggestions on improving recruiting, and aspects of 
comrel/devrel for years. Yet things get worse, less personal, more policy.

1. https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/
c52da1d4292cb96912c0f44a54927f86
2. https://archives.gentoo.org/gentoo-project/message/
c7baaaac1013d87adf4e0e6bcd3cbf8c


-- 
William L. Thomson Jr.