Re: [gentoo-project] improving alternative PM support in gentoo

[Dale]

hasufell wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I would like to improve support for alternative package managers in
> Gentoo in any way possible and make a few points about why I think this
> is important and useful. As the most important example right now, I will
> talk about Paludis.
>
> Paludis is a multi-format package manager[0] supporting Gentoo and has
> been around since 2006. Since then, it has been used by Gentoo users and
> developers.
>
> Paludis supports all EAPIs and implements PMS[1] consistently. It has
> been deemed stable on amd64 and x86 last year[2] and generally supports
> the following architectures: alpha, amd64, arm, ia64, mips, ppc, ppc64,
> s390, sparc, x86.[3]
>
> It is also well known for its rich configuration system and the
> strictness properties of the dependency resolver which is what most
> people value it for.
>
> Currently, there are not many support channels for people who combine
> Gentoo with Paludis (only for both separately). Our main Gentoo support
> channels are also a bit wary towards Paludis and I am hoping to not only
> show that it is a very useful package manager, but that it also benefits
> Gentoo as a meta-distribution to be open towards such innovative approaches.
>
> My aim would be that all our main support channels like #gentoo, the
> user mailing lists, the forums and so on treat user discussions
> regarding alternative package managers in (almost) the same way as Portage.
>
> That also means that we would have to integrate these alternatives in
> our documentation, hopefully the official one. Because I think our
> official documentation should discuss package managers in the same way
> it discusses file systems. So, it is fine to recommend e.g. Portage and
> ext4 as the main examples, but we should also mention zfs, btrfs,
> Paludis, Pkgcore (when it catches up) and so on.
> In the case of Paludis, the upstream documentation[4] is quite technical
> and doesn't give a concise enough introduction for Gentoo beginners, who
> want to follow a step-by-step guide. Because of that, I have written up
> such a guide and proposed it to be included in the official Gentoo
> handbook[5][6].
>
> This could be the start of improving a number of things:
> * introduce Gentoo beginners to useful PM alternatives
> * improve support for these in all our main support channels
> * users don't have to search hours for e.g. Paludis related guides,
> which are scattered across ancient wikis and forum posts, any more
> * raise awareness that Gentoo is different (and has a PMS for a reason)
> * encourage other PMs (like Pkgcore[7]) by promising to treat them as
> first-class citizens in Gentoo if they are able to support the full PMS
> * make clear that we care about technology, no matter where it comes from
>
> What do you guys think about this? Do you see any other things that need
> to be tackled in order to get there? Maybe create a project for this?
>
> I think we need to start somewhere and maybe the official documentation
> is that place, because it is more than just a technical statement. And I
> think we need such a statement.
>
>
> [0] http://paludis.exherbo.org/index.html
> [1] https://dev.gentoo.org/~ulm/pms/head/pms.html
> [2] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=520874
> [3] https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/tree/sys-apps/paludis/paludis-2.4.0.ebuild#n20
> [4] http://paludis.exherbo.org/configuration/index.html
> [5] https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557324
> [6] https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Hasufell/Test#Alternative:_Configuring_Paludis
> [7] https://github.com/pkgcore/pkgcore
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Julian Ospald
>
>

After reading some replies in this thread, I thought I would share a
little info about -user mailing list.  I'm a long term subscriber there
and read most threads. 

If someone asks a question about something Gentoo related, members do
try to help.  Example.  If someone asks about RIAD, I don't reply
because I don't use it and have no experience with it.  However, others
that do will reply and try to help.  Same with systemd and other
topics.  If it is a topic that very few or no one uses, then they may
not get help or very little of it. 

Basically, the only way I see that a person won't get help is if no one
uses or has knowledge on that topic.  I have a couple times asked
questions about Ubuntu and got replies.  There are a few people that use
or have recently used Ubuntu and can answer some questions or they may
be distro indifferent.  Asking on the -user mailing list is better than
subscribing to Ubuntu, asking and then unsubscribing or joining their
forums. 

Hope that helps shed a little light that we do try to help if, IF, we can. 

Dale

:-)  :-)