Re: [gentoo-project] RFC: GLEP - Require Projects to report to Council Monthly

[Kent Fredric]

On Thu, 26 Jan 2017 10:45:50 -0500
"William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml@××××××.com> wrote:

> On Thursday, January 26, 2017 2:57:12 PM EST Kent Fredric wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Jan 2017 12:03:02 -0500
> >
> > "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml@××××××.com> wrote:
>  [...]
> >
> > That may be how you see it.
>
> No that is fact, given how people keep discussing and focusing on punishment.
> It clearly shows a mindset and the atmosphere. Not a friendly one!

That's why I'm *only* getting that impression around you. Right.

The reality with human communication, is if people collectively interpret you incorrectly,
that's something only you can rectify. 

It sucks to have people misunderstand you, but you don't get to say
"no, I'm not giving this perception, you're just imagining it"

Because you are giving that perception. It becomes a question of *why* you're giving that perception
and what you can do to rectify that.

Granted, when a perception is misunderstood, you can then subsequently, with care, correct that.

But as to how initial misperceptions are created, that's an exercise that requires your investment.

Nobody else can do it for you.

Related concept presented comically by Louis CK: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18y6vteoaQY&t=110

> > But for me, I don't really have that problem in general, and I only seem to
> > bump into it when dealing with these horrible mailinglists of rivers of
> > emails that never end, when I'd rather STFU&WSC
>
> Please I tend to be more active than most speaking
> https://github.com/wltjr

I don't get what you're trying to say here. Its not a dick measuring contest. If you're meaning to
say you do more stuff than I do, and how when I say I'd rather STFU&WSC, that I'm just being rhetorical
about that, allow me: 

https://github.com/kentfredric

I don't know which metrics you're specifically suggesting I see, but I think at least one of those
numbers are comparable. But that's besides the point.

I find lengthy mailinglist discussions exhausting and there's often very very little return on investment,
and usually nothing becomes of any of it, so its just stupid conflict without utility. Great.

The only reason I involve myself in the first place is some conflicted deluded side effect of
empathy kicking in. Because somehow, I feel that maybe I can contribute something that will make
a bad situation better. Sometimes my patience helps me here, but usually it just makes me
incredibly depressed about humanity in general.

Instead, I took what I could from this, and pretty much side stepped the need for any such formalised proposal
by just doing something that could potentially be construed to be useful.

I just simply externalised my mental work queue to somewhere on the wiki so people could see it if they cared,
with no requirements of any kind.

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Kentnl/TODO

Somebody could scrape this, and aggregate it, I don't know, I don't care. Its useful to me as-is, and it could be
useful to somebody else. The problem is solved and I can go do something else.

And within hours, somebody noticed and copied me: 

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/User:Leio/TODO

Self-organising systems are great.

>
> > And for me, it very much *is* what you're writing that gives me these vibes.
>
> You do not know me, and you are reading things I did not write. Worrying about
> things I am not even discussing. None of that comes from me....
>
> > I don't pretend to be able to explain how that is, but it is true.
> >
> > I don't know how to resolve it either, but I'm just generally trying to
> > think to myself "Should I actually respond, or should I just shut my mouth
> > and do something else lest I make this fire worse"
>
> I see allot of people talking who became developers years after I was one. I
> do not see any respect for those that came before. No respect for wisdom
> gained over a decade, etc.
>
> I routinely will google Gentoo New Developer, with a persons name. Rarely am I
> talking to anyone from say before 2010. Most have become developers since and
> have a very different perspective.

There is some kind of respect for people over time, but it plateaus quickly, and beyond
that, everyone are just as mortal and fallible as I am, and they need to prove themselves.

And constantly.

People do change, and sometimes they change for the worse, so being experienced and older
is not in itself an extended license of authority.

One can still respect and listen to those views, but are still entitled to reject them.

I really wish I'd gotten paid for all the times I'd had to babysit people older than me
when they were throwing their toys out of the proverbial cot like children.