Re: Shutting down the Off the Wall (was: Re: [gentoo-project] Call for agenda items ...)

[Roy Bamford]

On 2020.12.11 21:23, Thomas Deutschmann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The topic has been discussed extensively in the past few weeks; The
> sad
> climax was last Tuesday. At this point I will not look back anymore.
> Maybe all of us could have done a better job but whataboutism doesn’t
> help anyone. Let's try to focus on a possible solution.
>
> To recall the problem:
> On November 7th, Gentoo forum member "Old School" named another human
> being a slut (https://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-p-8526392.html#8526392).
>
> This is a violation of Gentoo's code of conduct where we explicit
> state
> that "posting messages that are deliberately hostile and insulting"
> are
> unacceptable behaviors
> (https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Council/Code_of_conduct).
>
> This is not about free speech. Gentoo is primary a Linux distribution,
> not a discussion platform. This is about us who defined once how we
> want
> to treat each other in the Gentoo community and everyone participating
> must adhere to our code of conduct. It’s that simple.
>
> I expect that everyone in Gentoo, including forum moderators, agree on
> that.
>
> What does that mean for the forum?
>
>  From my point of view, the following things must change:
>
> 1) We must finally migrate the forum's software. The new software
> should
> give us new possibilities like introducing a warning system and move
> to
> a reporting system which doesn't require posting in a public forum.
> This
> should make life for moderators a lot easier like nobody is expecting
> that moderators will read every posting. But once we get aware of a
> code
> of conduct violation, we must take action.
>
> 2) Moderators must of course moderate a bit more, at least for the
> next
> three months until everyone in the community has understood that
> Gentoo
> should be a place where everyone should feel welcome and where we pay
> attention how we treat each other. I am expecting that not more than
> 20
> people will have a problem with our rules but consistently applied
> rules
> should either lead to changes in behavior or result in bans after a
> short time.
>
> 3) We should consider starting with a new, empty, OTW forum. Some old
> content like the screenshot or Christmas thread can (and should) of
> course be preserved.
>
> Like said, these are only the things which I believe have to change. I
> am looking forward for other opinions, especially from current forums
> moderators how they believe that the problem should be resolved.
>
> If the situation will not change and forum remains a place where our
> code of conduct will be ignored, we will have no choice but to close
> it.
>
> Let's work together to solve the problem and keep the forum open!
> Don’t
> let less than 20 people who don't share our values take our forum away
> from us!
>
>
> --
> Regards,
> Thomas Deutschmann / Gentoo Linux Developer
> C4DD 695F A713 8F24 2AA1 5638 5849 7EE5 1D5D 74A5
>
>

Thomas,

Thank you. This post and Alecs post with some data are about the
only two rational posts in the whole thread. Oh, Sam made a useful 
contribution too.

Does your post represent the council considered opinion or only
your own?

Its a reasonable problem statement that the forums team can 
work with to devise potential solutions. I discussed something
similar with dilfridge and k_f at FOSDEM 2019.

I have a major concern with the concept of the council 
deciding to close any part of the forum. Its like this ...
At present, Gentoo is a common carrier, like the mail.
The content of letters and parcels is of little concern to the 
carrier.

Gentoos status could be changed by a council decision to 
close any part of the forum from common carrier to publisher,
were the council seen to be exercising editorial control.
Being a publisher makes Gentoo liable for the published 
content. Gentoo could not run the forums at all under those
conditions. 

Getting legal advice on that point and taking on the 
resulting  legal liabilities that result is a job for the 
Foundation, not the council.

Its all a matter of how its done. Should the council decide
to 'encourage' the forums team to take the opportunity
to update the forums structure to prepare for the 
forthcoming forum upgrade, then the changes become part 
of everyday forums management, not the result of the 
editorial red pencil.

Can the council provide a problem statement that a least
a majority of the members support?

-- 
Regards,

Roy Bamford
(Neddyseagoon) a member of
elections
gentoo-ops
forum-mods
arm64