Re: [gentoo-project] Groups under the Council or Foundation: the structure & processes thereof

[M. J. Everitt]

On 13/10/16 16:27, Michał Górny wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Oct 2016 10:15:47 -0400
> "William L. Thomson Jr." <wlt-ml@××××××.com> wrote:
>
>> On Thursday, October 13, 2016 5:16:48 AM EDT Rich Freeman wrote:
>>> 2.  The Foundation needs to focus first and foremost on keeping the
>>> lights on.  Right now there are 10 periodic activities that the
>>> Foundation needs to perform to be in compliance with the law/etc, and
>>> according to the public records of the Foundation we're current on 6
>>> of them.  Not all are equally important, and maybe we're just bad at
>>> recordkeeping, but it isn't a great sign.  (
>>> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Foundation:Activity_Tracker )
>> This is self inflicted. Driving people away who may help keep the foundation in
>> order.  If you look at the past, it was the foundation neglect that got me
>> involved...
>>
>> I did things in a brief period that others had not up till that point.
>> Including Foundation Reinstatement with New Mexico, Obtaining a Bank Account,
>> and formal by law review and modification on -nfp. So the draft that existed
>> since the Foundation was created could become adopted and official. As it was
>> just after I resigned. I also found Gentoo's EIN/TIN number.
>>
>> This was all in ~6 months. Had I remained as a Trustee, things with the IRS
>> and other would have been in order. That things are not in order, shows when
>> you drive one away, another does not always replace them. The foundation
>> suffered, and Gentoo Java.
>>
>> For what benefit? For the benefit of saving the distro from a potential toxic
>> person. Which ends up just setting things back.
>>
>>> 3.  I've yet to see any evidence that Comrel has actually done
>>> anything wrong.
>> Which is why an appeal is pointless with some commenting being on the council.
>>
>> I have factually shown Comrel does not follow procedures. Not in 2008, nor
>> 2015. That a council member can make a statement that comrel has done no
>> wrong.  Where do you go from there?
>>
>> Facts have been presented about Comrel not following policy. Yet such a
>> comment from a council member who keeps talking about appeal. It really goes
>> to show the root of the problems, much deeper than just comrel.
>>
>> Flat out denial....
>>
>>>  We also have an active thread where
>>> somebody is complaining about Comrel but refuses to actually appeal,
>>> and has commented in the thread that he thinks it is unlikely that his
>>> appeal would be successful.
>> I have publicly polled the sentiment of the community and some were members of
>> the council that would be voting on any appeal. The comments show how people
>> feel on the matter. An appeal would be further waste of time. Given the flat
>> out denial to comrel not following policy, yet saying they do no wrong.
>>
>> So if I do not follow policy, do not use repoman and break things in tree. I
>> am not doing wrong? Failure to follow policy is doing wrong...
>>
>> If the general community much less council member do not see that publicly.
>> What point is there to any appeal?
>>
>>> I think there is room for improvement here, but I think it would be a
>>> mistake to do something drastic.
>> And that is why an appeal is pointless. You are bias and not open minded. What
>> if you are wrong? What if it would be a mistake to NOT do something drastic?
> No, the appeal is pointless because it's far too late for it to make
> any sense. As you say, it was 8 years ago. Get over it. Move on with
> your life. It's all fun to hear stories of the past but hearing random
> parts of your story over and over again is past bearing of most of
> the people on this mailing list, other mailing lists, IRC and wherever
> you keep sending them.
>
> So, please stop. If you really want to tell your story so much, write
> a consistent, complete autobiography with all the bits in one place. If
> you want to do something about Gentoo, set up a proper plan and start
> working on it. Make things happen by hard work and cooperation, rather
> than complaints, whining, accusations, preaching and everything else
> you seem to be doing around here.
>
> And do something about your ego. Yes, we know you were the most
> important person in the whole world, you already told us that. You
> and your old friends, most of whom are not involved in Gentoo anymore.
> That's all cool but that's the past. Now there are new people
> in Gentoo, whether you like it or not. Those new people have put a lot
> of effort into various aspects of Gentoo. Now those people are Gentoo
> developers, and you are a newcomer to them.
>
> If you want to do something about Gentoo, then do it. But start
> respecting the others, not only the people who made up Gentoo back
> in your days, and stop expecting to suddenly get all the privileges
> that you had many years ago back.
>
> Gentoo developers aren't perfect. We can live with many toxic people
> because they are able to give Gentoo something in return. However, if
> the potential issues clearly overrule the potential benefit...
>
+1