Re: [gentoo-project] Re: A plan for Gentoo

[Daniel Robbins]

Also, my use of 'senior' refers to 'seniority' -- i.e. those who have been
around a long time. Typically that also correlates with influence on the
project.

On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 10:29 AM, Daniel Robbins <drobbins@××××××.org> wrote:

> Ulrich,
>
> I am not implying that there is constant bickering on the project.
>
> My observations are based on the retirement of vapier, and private
> conversations I have had with very senior people on the project (will not
> disclose who.)
>
> And yes, there is some conflict in regards to the future direction of
> Portage, but this conflict is not really out in the open.
>
> -Daniel
>
>
> On Sat, Dec 9, 2017 at 2:56 AM, Ulrich Mueller <ulm@g.o> wrote:
>
>> >>>>> On Fri, 8 Dec 2017, Daniel Robbins wrote:
>>
>> > Looking at my past, I think you may find it a familiar trajectory
>> > that resonates with a lot of senior Gentoo contributors: unbridled
>> > youthful enthusiasm, which then turns into incredible productivity
>> > and growth, then additional burdens, responsibilities and demands,
>> > resulting in eventual burn-out and cynicism. I was the first
>> > astronaut to be launched into orbit, so to speak, so I got to
>> > experience this fantastic voyage first -- but I am sure you know
>> > others who have followed in my foot-steps in this area. So I think
>> > the point you raise is actually important, but it should not be
>> > presented as a personal attack on me, but as a general weakness in
>> > Gentoo related to mentorship, growth and direction for senior-level
>> > Gentoo contributors and providing them with positive (good for the
>> > project, good for them) outlets for their immense talent, while
>> > preventing their incredible influence gained within the project from
>> > turning into a negative and causing internal strife.
>>
>> This seems to be a rather crude theory. For example, you say that it
>> "resonates with a lot of senior Gentoo contributors", so do you have
>> any hard numbers supporting that claim?
>>
>> Not sure if I qualify as what you call a "senior contributor", but
>> I don't feel like being burned out (how would that even be possible,
>> for something that I do for the fun of it, and from which I can take
>> a break whenever I want). Also someone please tell me if my
>> contributions have turned into a negative; if so, I shall retire
>> tomorrow.
>>
>> > [...] I think that the solution to this is to have a vision of
>> > forward evolution and growth of the project --
>>
>> What does this mean? I can have a vision that we shall have 500 active
>> developers by next year, but that wouldn't actually solve any problem
>> of recruitment.
>>
>> > we need new, bigger challenges and our most senior people need to
>> > 'graduate' into playing a leading role in shaping the future of
>> > technology. We all need to support one another instead of fighting
>> > amongst each other.
>>
>> Again, I don't understand how you come to that conclusion. Can you
>> provide us with recent examples of developers fighting against each
>> other? The majority of developers (both "senior" and "junior", though
>> I dislike the categorising) quietly do their work, and my impression
>> is that our technical discussions are factual. Of course this doesn't
>> preclude that there are different opinions.
>>
>> For a more concrete question, IIUC you have recently followed Portage
>> development. Did you perceive any fighting in that project?
>>
>> Ulrich
>>
>
>