Re: [gentoo-user] Re: systemd? [ Was: The End Is Near ... ]

[Canek Peláez Valdés]

On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 10:17 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
<daddy@×××××××××××××××××××××.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On March 17, 2012 at 10:57 PM "Canek Peláez Valdés" <caneko@×××××.com>
> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM, Bruce Hill, Jr.
>> <daddy@×××××××××××××××××××××.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On March 17, 2012 at 8:48 PM Nikos Chantziaras <realnc@×××××.com>
> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 17/03/12 13:53, Alan Mackenzie wrote:
>> >> > Hello, Nikos.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Sat, Mar 17, 2012 at 08:25:48AM +0200, Nikos Chantziaras wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >>> Happy Computer Users, systemd is on your horizon.
>> >> >
>> >> >> No, we don't.  I hope systemd arrives soon.  It's the best init
> system
>> > I
>> >> >> ever saw.
>> >> >
>> >> > What's so good about it?  What will it do for me?
>> >> >
>> >> > I have this horrible sneaking suspicion that it will be more
>> > complicated
>> >> > than /sbin/init + OpenRC, just like udev + initramfs is more
>> > complicated
>> >> > than udev, and CUPS is more complicated than classical lpr.
>> >> >
>> >> > Why do you find it so good?
>> >>
>> >> No idea.  I only posted this because the OP didn't say what's bad
> about
>> >> systemd :-)  I really don't know I should care whether my system runs
>> >> OpenRC or systemd.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > I'm the OP, and often I don't know how to express myself.
>> >
>> > It is my understanding that systemd is going to force an initramfs on
> you
>> > even if you only have / and no other partitions. (Could it be initrd
> and
>> > not initramfs?)
>> >
>> > I'm all for automounting a device when it's plugged in, if that's what
> the
>> > user chooses. But for me, with my workstation, laptop, wife's PC and
>> > daughter's laptop -- we just don't need or care for it. Seems a shame
> to be
>> > using udev and then have to completely change your system when 181
> comes
>> > out, or freeze it at .
>> >
>> > Therefore, we don't install anything to automount devices. We have
> lines
>> > such as these in fstab:
>> >
>> > UUID=6C5F-3742    /Libby-Vivitar   vfat
>> > noauto,users,rw,gid=100,dmask=0002,fmask=0113  0 0
>> >
>> > for those devices we own. When we get a new device, we add a new line.
>> >
>> > We don't use a DE either, just Fluxbox.
>> >
>> > The bottom line is that I don't like things being forced on me (hint,
> "get
>> > the vaseline, they're on the way!") And I don't like upstream forcing
> such
>> > nefarious changes on the distros. And for the Lennart fanboi, his
> coding is
>> > so questionable that "Lennartware" has become derogatory slang. (Of
> course,
>> > you already know that.)
>>
>> No need to get personal man, relax.
>
> I disagree ... there's every reason to get personal. Not getting personal
> doesn't assign the blame. Men stand up and take responsibility for their
> actions.

You called me "Lennart fanboi". That wasn't personal?

>> I'm getting my PhD in Computer Science
> <snip>
>
> I got my PhD in life before your parents met. So what? Just saying...

I'm not bragging; I just explained my credentials as to why I say that
Lennart's code is actually quite good. Because I have actually studied
it, besides tried it. Have you? And, are you gonna keep saying you are
not getting personal, by the way?

>> So again, please, [citation needed]. You still haven't provided any
>> reference to support your claim that Lennart's code (specifically
>> systemd's code) is "poorly" done.
>
> Mate, have you heard of the world wide web? The internet?

And "the Internet" has always the same opinion. And it's never wrong.

> Seriously, mate ... are you his boyfriend, on his payroll, related, or
> what?

No, I don't even know him. Are you gonna keep saying you are not
getting personal, by the way?

> You search LKML for yourself. I've been there since 2003 and have numerous
> memories.

Me too. Lennart has actually code accepted into the Linux Kernel, and
he's a member of the Linux Kernel Plumbers. How's that as  proof of
the quality of his code?

> How about:
> http://www.change.org/petitions/lennart-poettering-stop-writing-useless-programs-systemd-journal

Really? A petition on-line? With 235 votes? That's the best reference
you can present?

On one side, we have a guy whose code is included in all the levels on
the stack, from kernel to end-user application. On the other, we have
an open internet petition with 235 votes.

Yeah, I'm gonna side with the on-line poll.

> Sorry, mate ... many of us here are allergic to FUD <:-)}

I would say that you are allergic to Lennart's work. But I'm pretty
sure that you haven't take the time at least once to actually study it
or at least try it, and given the level of discussion you present, I'm
starting to think you don't actually have the capacity to study it.
So, in that sense, the one spreading the FUD is you.

All I keep saying is that I use systemd (and udev, and GNOME 3), and
that I like it, and that I agree with the technical decisions behind
it.

That's it. Of course you don't have to agree with me (as I don't agree
with you). But at least I'm not resort to name-calling, and I actually
have tried (and studied) both systemd and OpenRC (which is the topic
of this particular branch of the thread we are in).

I'm out of this thread. As always, I give my opinion, do whatever you
want with it.

Regards.
-- 
Canek Peláez Valdés
Posgrado en Ciencia e Ingeniería de la Computación
Universidad Nacional Autónoma de México