Re: [gentoo-user] The future of linux, and Gentoo specifically now

[Paige Thompson]

On 11/21/14 17:39, wireless@×××××××××××.com wrote:
> On 11/21/14 07:00, Rich Freeman wrote:
>> On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 2:32 AM, Canek Peláez Valdés
>> <caneko@×××××.com> wrote:
>>> It's actually a great thing for a lot of use cases. But it doesn't
>>> seem that Gentoo will change defaults soon, although systemd works
>>> great with it.
>>>
>>
>> My (personal) sense is that in the medium-term we may end up moving to
>> not having any default at all, just as with bootloaders, kernels,
>> syslog, crontab, mail, etc.  That is pretty-much the Gentoo way
>> everywhere else when there are options.
>>
>> As you already pointed out, as long as somebody cares to maintain
>> openrc and write init scripts for it, there will be support for it.
>> Many init scripts and systemd units are contributed by outside users
>> already, and policy is that maintainers cannot block them from being
>> added to packages (though they do not have to write/maintain them
>> personally).
>>
>> Gentoo doesn't really tend to exclude anything, and inclusion is a
>> matter of whether somebody wants to put in the work.
>
>> Rich
>
> Very wall expressed and neutral. This is an "800 lb gorilla" that nobody
> seems to be talking about; that is embedded linux. Embedded linux now
> accounts for at least 20 times the number of deployments of linux than
> workstations and servers combined; some argue it is far more, others a
> bit less. Regardless, embedded linux is a force that is driving the
> semiconductor markets. There's not much margin on 32bit or less. etc etc.
>
> The main point of embedded linux is take what Rich has articulated above
> and multiply it by a billion. There is no such thing as standard
> embedded linux. If Systemd is successful, with very large embedded
> systems (dozens to hundreds of cores) then it has a future. If it
> fails in that space, it may survive, but not likely. It will old serve
> to isolate those distros that go down that path, exclusively, *imho*.
>
> Regardless, the smaller, cheaper embedded linux crowd is very unlikely
> to ever embrace systemd. Why? Glad you asks. Thousands of reasons, but,
> here are a few:  It is very common in embedded (anything) to run
> multiple and often different rtos (real time operating system) on
> different embedded systems products, often to circumvent licenses,
> royalties, duplication, security and a plethora of other reasons.
> Furthermore, many embedded systems run simultaneous codes on a single
> core and systemd does not fit into that scheme of things, at all.
>
>
> So, even if gentoo becomes stupid and decides to abandon openrc. Many
> folks will just move to embedded (gentoo) linux and play "follow the
> leaders" with bootstrapping there cores.
>
> Rest easy as the devs fight this one out. I hope systemd survives
> and prospers. I can tell you one area of massive failure and that is
> clustering/cloud computing. Sure the "big dogs" with big buck are
> claiming to use systemd, but they only roll out binary offerings. When
> others try to use one of the commercial brands of linux and build a
> cluster/cloud from the source-codes up, there are all sorts of problems.
>
> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.  Very strange, batman. Very strange.
>
>
> What is going on, is wildly variant. YMMV. But, should I be a sporting
> man, my money is on the embedded folks deciding if something other than
> systemd survives. Why do I bet on embedded folks? Easy. I personally
> know of dozens of folks that code in machine, assembler all the way
> through any language they choose. They routinely build entire systems,
> custom on a wide bit of processors. Only a few of those folks are
> necessary to keep alternatives to systemd alive, prosperous and
> clearly documented. There are most likely tens of thousands of the
> folks around the world. Do the math. Each time one of these experts
> build an embedded
> (linux) system, it is usually optimized and so wonderful, that
> companies clone them in counts of thousands to millions of deployed
> linux systems. The fact that the majority rare require human tinkering,
> is both a testament to how well they run and the wisdon of these
> brilliant developers to keep the rank and file humanoids using winblows
> and OXlooser operating systems.
>
> A forking of the linux kernel would be the best thing to happen to
> opensource, in a very, very long time. The kernel development has become
> a "good ole boys club" imho.
>
> Embedded linux runs everywhere; so rest easy!
>
>
> peace,
> James
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I hope for this to be the case