Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet?

[Dale]

Nuno J. Silva wrote:
> On 2012-12-24, Dale wrote:
>
>> Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 19:03:25 +0200
>>> nunojsilva@×××××××.pt (Nuno J. Silva) wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2012-12-23, Alan McKinnon wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Sun, 23 Dec 2012 12:22:24 +0200
>>>>> nunojsilva@×××××××.pt (Nuno J. Silva) wrote:
> [...]
>>>>>> What about just mounting /usr as soon as the system boots?
>>>>> Please read the thread next time. The topic under discussion is
>>>>> solutions to the problem of not being able to do exactly that.
>>>> Then I suppose you can surely explain in a nutshell why can't init
>>>> scripts simply do that?
>>>>
>>> It is trivially easy to create a circular loop whereby code required to
>>> mount /usr now resides on /usr.
>>>
>>> Which is the entire thrust of this whole thread.
>>>
>> When I reboot, I get a lot of errors about /var being empty, since it is
>> not mounted yet.  It appears it wants /var as well as /usr early on in
>> the boot process.  It boots regardless of the errors tho.
>>
>> For the record Nuno, I have / and /boot on regular partitions.  I have
>> everything else, /home, /usr, /var and /usr/portage on LVM partitions.
>> Until recently, I NEVER needed a init thingy and had zero errors while
>> booting.  Once this 'needing /usr on /' started a few months ago, I was
>> told I would need one to boot.  The claim being it was broken all the
>> time but odd that it worked for the last 9 years with no problem, might
>> add, I only been using Linux for the last 9 years but it also would have
>> worked before that.
>>
> In your case, does it actually fail without an initrd now? It's just
> that I see lots of people saying "it doesn't work" or "it will silently
> fail", that's why I asked the question, I was looking for actual
> examples of how can this go wrong (other than just because the init
> scripts don't try to mount /usr before starting udev).
>
> Also, how does an initrd help solving the chicken-and-the-egg problem
> for a missing /usr?
>
> I suppose the LVM drivers create additional device files that are only
> created once udevd is up and running in order to process these events?
> (With the case of a regular partition being no problem just because
> linux apparently offers hardcoded files for some partitions in the first
> ATA controllers.)
>

Well, so far I have stuck with the udev that works without a init
thingy.  I do have a init thingy for when the udev that requires it is
marked stable.  The devs are keeping the udev that requires /usr on /
masked and/or keyworded until everyone is ready.  That was until eudev
was announced.  Now they are also waiting on eudev to get stable so
people can switch to it.  I plan to switch too. 

The problem is this from my understanding.  For decades, any commands or
config files needed to boot Linux had to be in /bin, /sbin, /etc, and/or
/lib.  Those directories were what was needed to boot and anything
needed to boot a system should be installed into one or more of those
directories.  Then someone came up with the idea of putting things into
/usr instead.  When they did that, it broke things.  To me, this change
makes as much sense as putting the mount command is /usr/bin but that is
where some want Linux to go.  I have read where some want to basically
move about everything to /usr but not sure how much traction that is
getting. 

Basically, something that has worked for decades is declared to be
broken all that time and if it wasn't broken, we are going to break it. 

From my understanding, if I upgrade my system to the later version of
udev and bypass the init system, my system will not boot.  I have not
tested the theory but that is what people have been saying.  Not only is
my /usr separate but it is on LVM partitons too. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

-- 
I am only responsible for what I said ... Not for what you understood or how you interpreted my words!