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On 02/20/2014 07:42 PM, Canek Peláez Valdés wrote: |
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> On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 6:08 PM, Daniel Campbell <lists@××××××××.us> wrote: |
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>> On 02/15/2014 08:09 PM, walt wrote: |
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>>> On 02/15/2014 12:30 PM, Daniel Campbell wrote: |
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>>>> The social |
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>>>> tactics at work from the systemd team (and verily, other Red Hat |
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>>>> projects like GNOME) are reminiscent of Microsoft through the use of the |
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>>>> "Embrace, Extend, Extinguish" methodology. |
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>>> |
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>>> I certainly share your hostility towards M$ for suppressing competition. |
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>>> |
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>>> Red Hat, like M$, is a for-profit corporation, so I share your suspicion |
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>>> that they want to suppress their competitors (though I don't know who |
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>>> their competitors are). |
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>>> |
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>>> But comparing a completely closed-source shop like M$ to any open source |
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>>> company leaves me feeling uneasy. I can't find the exact argument to |
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>>> explain my unease, but I'm hoping someone else will jump in with a more |
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>>> rational argument. |
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>>> |
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>> I think I understand where you're coming from. "How can they compare |
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>> when Red Hat releases their source under a liberating license while MS |
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>> locks it down behind closed doors?" |
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>> |
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>> That's missing the point, though. |
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> |
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> No, it's not. |
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> |
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>> In the FOSS world, that's the "bait", |
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>> so to speak. The wolf in sheep's clothing. Red Hat can release (or hack |
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>> on) a bunch of attractive software or features, get people interested |
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>> (so interested that, say, the majority of distros depend on it *wink |
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>> wink*), and then use that influence to indirectly control where FOSS |
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>> moves. By striking the weakest part of the stack (sysv probably *did* |
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>> need a good replacement, but not one as ambitious as systemd) and |
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>> digging down into the kernel level (kdbus), Red Hat devs will now have a |
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>> very influential role in the FOSS world. This will in turn generate |
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>> interest (and thus profit) in Red Hat. |
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> |
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> First of all, you do realize that Greg Kroah-Hartman, the primary |
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> author of kdbus, works for the Linux Foundation, right? Not RedHat. |
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> |
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> Second, good for RedHat if they can turn a profit. Meanwhile the code |
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> from the whole stack is free, and anyone willing and able can fork it |
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> and use, enhance, or replace any part of it. And yes, I said replace. |
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> |
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> So, again, the comparison makes no sense at all. |
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> |
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>> It's marginally clever, but so clearly obvious at the same time. It's |
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>> sad (to me) that the community didn't see it coming. |
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> |
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> So you are saying we are idiots? Or just naive? Or both? And *all* of |
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> us who use systemd and think is a great idea? |
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> |
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> Damn, if only we had knew. Too bad you didn't come before to open our |
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> eyes to this undeniable truth. Now it's too late, the sky is falling |
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> and the world will end on fire and brim. |
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> |
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>> Those who did have |
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>> been written off as conspiracy theorists or FUDders. Time will reveal all. |
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> |
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> Indeed it will. Wanna bet a beer? |
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> |
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> Regards. |
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> |
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|
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Indeed, Greg doesn't work for Red Hat. Prior to working for LF, however, |
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he worked for Novell, another for-profit Linux company. Moot point. |
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Businesses tend to do favors for other businesses. What makes you think |
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Red Hat hasn't given LF some money at some point? Further, isn't Lennart |
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friends with Greg? Isn't that how he got udev into systemd, since Greg |
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maintained udev before it was merged into systemd? Tell the full story |
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if you're going to bring it up. |
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|
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I will refrain from stooping to the level of petty insults... but yes, |
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collectively the FOSS community at large has *terrible* social awareness |
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within its own ecosystem and would not see an agenda coming until it was |
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too late and they had to fork or rebuild. It has nothing to do with me; |
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it has everything to do with foresight. And the FOSS world is lacking in |
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that. Those that have it are outnumbered by those who get distracted by |
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shiny objects and if they care about the future of FOSS, it's only in a |
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superficial sense. |
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|
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FOSS is not just code, it's culture too. |