Re: [gentoo-user] Install PreQualifying Matrix

[Jeremi Piotrowski]

On Mon, 17 Aug 2015, James wrote:
> So another day, another borked set of installs.

You are aware that for every failed install that comes to this mailing
lists there are countless that go just fine, right?


Planning questions are an OK-ish idea, but I surely wouldn't link to
derivative distributions to answer them. We have appropriate wiki pages
for all options, those that are insufficient should be improved. These
could be linked to so that people know what to expect.

> What I really would appreciate is some feedback on the Planning
> Questions listed below, as to help folks organized their thoughts and
> hardware details BEFORE actually performing an install or test-drive.

It's always good to plan before doing something so *this* part of your
proposal I support.


> A recent discussion of the dev list showed
> encouragement for pointing gentoo-noobs to some of the gentoo derivative
> distros for a quick install experience.

Perhaps it would be enough to extend this page

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/About

and under `Troubles` mention derivative distributions (by name) with a
_hint_ that their installers quickly lead to a working base system.


The decisions to be made during the installation are mostly orthogonal, so
I wouldn't try to break the current installation procedure which is for
the most part linear. 
A matrix implies some form of interaction between the options, which I
don't quite see.


> straightforward for folks to discern the best route to their desired final
> result. When new installation semantics [1]  mature, the installation matrix
> can be modified to include those options as links.
>
>         Install PreQualifying Matrx::QUESTIONS
>         ....................................................................
>         ....................................................................
>         ....................................................................
>         Live Testdrive options before installation(usb/cd/dvd)::

Pretty much already covered by

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64/Installation/Media

and should really be a pre-install thing which it currently already is. 

>         Intended Usage (workstation/server/device/)
>         Hardware or Vitual installation::
>         PC mobo or tablet/embedded/device::
>         Processor/Ram characteristics::

How are any of these relevant to the installation? For virtual
installations I would only add mention of the `make kvmconfig` option that
quickly pulls in qemu drivers. But the other things you mentioned don't
have corresponding choices that need to be made (during the install and
especially by newcomers). I'd remove them.

>         MBR vs (u)EFI (type of mobo)::
>         Single or Multi or RAID disk configuration::
>         File System type(s)::
>         Grub1 vs Grub2 or other boot-semantics::

To me these are the only real things that need to be thought about during
the install. MBR vs UEFI is well explained if you ask me.  Single/RAID and
filesystems are strongly connected but can be chosen freely independent of
the other two. Grub2 can boot pretty much anything and if you use the EFI
stub kernel on the ESP with initrd then that too can handle anything.  So
no dependencies here.

So I would ask these questions in this order, and this is actually the
order in which they show up in the handbook... which makes me wonder
whether there is really a need for this.

>         OpenRC or Systemd::

More of a post install thing if you ask me but the handbook currently
links to the systemd article at just the right time.


If anything I would actually go for a simplification of the install
procedure, to something extremely low maintenence (for the handbook
authors ofc). An ext4 single disk install with grub2 (meh) that every one
can handle. 

Sure gentoo gives you choices but you have to be ready to handle them, so
perhaps the first install is not the right one for experimenting?


> as well as valid install links
> like sabayon for gentoo(ish) systemd
> like calculate-linus for gentoo(ish)openrc
> like pentoo for gentoo-penetration systems
> like zentoo for gentoo CI systems
> Like funtoo as an option install
> like gentooliveUSB   for a gentoo + persistence experience.

The goal should be to get people to come to gentoo-gentoo, not to go
elsewhere.


> gentoo installs, so he is one of those guys that can single-handedly
> solve this crisis:

I actually don't feel that there is any crisis. The only time I've ever
had problems with the install was when I decided to not follow the
handbook. Most people should just stick to the handbook and learn.
Experiment once they know what they're dealing with.

I think an einstein quote is relevant here:

    Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler.

The current install procedure is pretty much as simple as can be, once you
think about it.