Re: [gentoo-user] it keeps growing

[John Blinka]

On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 11:23 AM Mark Knecht <markknecht@×××××.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2021 at 7:14 AM Dale <rdalek1967@×××××.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hund wrote:
> > > On June 1, 2021 3:38:30 PM GMT+02:00, n952162 <n952162@×××.de> wrote:
> > >> 337 packages this month to be updated.  It keeps getting more and
> more.
> > >> Pretty soon, gentoo will overtake Bitcoin in energy use.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > One might then ask why you have so many packages? And why you have a
> computer that consumes enough power for you to be worried about it?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Hund
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > I was thinking along the lines of how many packages even binary distros
> > have to update.  I've installed binary based distros before and when
> > updating those, there can be hundreds, several hundred, packages to
> > upgrade.  Thing is, those same packages exist in Gentoo.  If one has a
> > very similar set of packages installed, odds are, almost the same
> > packages will update in either a source based distro like Gentoo or in a
> > binary based distro.  The only difference is Gentoo compiles from
> source.
> >
> > If one is really concerned about compile times or the amount of power
> > needed to run Gentoo up to date, then one has to question not the
> > updates but why use Gentoo??  While some large packages are available in
> > binary, Firefox, Libreoffice etc, the vast majority of Gentoo is
> > compiled from source.  It's why most people use Gentoo, compile from
> > source with features set like you want.  If one is limited in hardware
> > or power, Gentoo may not be a good option.
> >
> > Makes one think.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-)  :-)
>
> I totally get why the Linux enthusiast or an IT guy tasked with specific
> requirements runs Gentoo. I did from 2001 through maybe early 2018.
>
> There are numerous reasons I moved from Gentoo to Kubuntu 3-4 years ago:
>
> - Kubuntu updates take, in general, less than 1 minute…Most important to
> me is in 3-4 years not a single one has failed. Download a little binary,
> install, done.
>
> - Gentoo lost its way (IN MY OPINION ONLY, and maybe it's better now) 4-5
> years ago in terms of a simple 'stable' release. There was a time when I
> couldn't update without ~amd64-ing some packages.
>

Friendly, informative experts.
>
> Just my 1.5 cents worth
>

Another 1.5 cents:

I’ve been doing Gentoo for probably 20 years now.  I tend to migrate among
various application areas: numerical modeling, photography, video, and for
a while now a large medical wiki.  As my investment in self developed
software and photos has grown, I’ve added zfs to the mix for data
preservation.  I am neither an IT guy nor a Linux enthusiast.

Gentoo is the best computing environment I’ve ever experienced.  I moved to
it after trying to build some now forgotten Linux software on Slackware.
Getting the dependencies to build on Slackware’s then non-mainstream file
system layout defeated me.  And distros like Redhat took a Microsoft like
attitude toward my machine and blithely reformatted partitions that I
didn’t think I had given permission for them to touch.  Poof!  Data gone.
 (Yes, there were backups.) I quickly lost faith in distros like that.
Besides, they didn’t support all the things I wanted to do.  Back to doing
it myself and dependency hell.

I distinctly remember discovering Gentoo then and feeling intimidated by
the handbook.  But I went ahead.  The install was actually straightforward
and, with modest effort, got exactly the system I wanted. It’s been that
way ever since.

What I particularly like is that as my needs and interests have wandered
substantially, there’s always been a Gentoo path to support those needs and
interests.  And often enough, even a choice of paths.  And well written
documentation and a great user forum for support.

There have been hiccups over the years.  In the early days it wasn’t
uncommon to be deposited in some dependency conflict hell on updating or
adding new capabilities.  On occasion things got so screwed up that the
easiest path was a bare metal rebuild.

But it’s quite noticeable to me that maintenance has gotten much smoother
over the years.  I’ve had some massive updates in the past month.  No
conflicts, no build problems.  My update scripts “just work”.  And so does
everything once they complete.

> Maintenance effort can be measured in various ways.  For me, my update
scripts take virtually all the effort out of it.  My machines might be
compiling all night when chromium, libreoffice, WebKit-gtk, and Firefox all
decide to upgrade simultaneously, but the time I personally spend is -
maybe - a couple minutes.  The machines do all the actual work.  And those
few minutes a day are well worth having had the same computing environment
for more than a decade, even through substantial changes in my software
focus.  And it’s been cool enough here this year for the heat generated to
be welcome! ;)

Definitely *not* arguing against anyone else’s tastes in computing or
maintenance.  Just expressing my pleasure that Gentoo exists and that I get
to benefit from the great work of everyone who makes it possible!

John Blinka