[gentoo-user] Re: [OT, game-related,long] Changing file dates?

[Moshe Kaminsky]

Hi,

Maybe I misunderstand something, but can't you just use 'touch' to 
change the time of the files? If there are too many of them, it should 
be easy to create a script that does it, using the output of 'ls -lR' or 
some kind of 'find' on the directory where this is installed correctly.

Moshe

* Holly Bostick <motub@××××××.nl> [01/08/05 14:21]:
>
> Hi, all--
>
> The short version is that I 'need' to do something to 'fix' the
> efficiency of installing and running a game (The Elder Scrolls 3:
> Morrowind), but I'm not quite sure what or how, so I (unfortunately)
> have to explain the problem at some length in the hopes that someone
> else will have a better take on it. When (if) you read it, you'll
> (hopefully) see why I'm writing here rather than somewhere else (because
> I can't figure out to which of the many other involved parties this mail
> might be appropriate).
>
> The summary: I'm trying to document how to run Morrowind, using an ATI
> card and the fglrx drivers, with user-created add-on modules, under
> Linux (for myself, as I love Morrowind, and for a HOW-TO, since I can
> *run* it now, but I want to write it down to help others and myself in
> the future). However, oddities of Morrowind, Linux, and Windows programs
> generally are making this more difficult than it seems to need to be--
> one 'oddity' in particular.
>
> The obstacle: Well, there are several, such as Linux's case sensitivity,
> and Windows' lack thereof, and the fact that some module makers pack
> their archives badly so extraction to the installed game's data folder
> can be a nightmare-- but those are relatively easily solved (WinRAR and
> Total Commander, respectively, both of which run adequately under Wine).
> The immovable object atm seems to be file dates.
>
> You see, Morrowind stores its base graphic data in *.bsa files (bethesda
> softworks archives), and its data (scripts and object locations and the
> like) in *.esm (elder scrolls master?) files. These files, when
> installed by the game, of course have a date (which is first of all
> different depending on how you install, but we'll come to that).
>
> The 'problem' is that if one then installs user-created plugins (of
> which there are several thousand), Morrowind uses the file date to
> determine whether the plugin's files override the original files found
> in the *.bsa, and in what order they do so (in the event that Plugin A
> changes something that Plugin B also changes, the timestamp also
> determines which change the player finally sees when the game actually
> starts).
>
> Now this is a "normal" Morrowind problem, insofar as it exists under
> Windows as well (getting your plugins to load in the right order is a
> horrendous job, which is why there are several tools to help with the
> process, but it's still horrifying if you want to run more than...oh,
> two or three plugins. And Morrowind players commonly run a hundred or
> two hundred, as the game will allow up to 255. Right now I've got 56
> listed in my Morrowind.ini, and that's slightly less than half of my
> 'minimum required to set up this game to my preferences' set, nothing
> said about 'quests, tweaks, and fixes that might be nice to have'). But
> under Linux, the original install file dates are not the same[1] as they
> are under Windows, and this adds a possibly unsurmountable level of
> complexity to the issue.
>
> [1] There are two ways to install Morrowind. You can install it under
> Wine or Cedega using the regular Setup.exe, or you can install it via a
> script found at Loki Installers for Linux Gamers (http://liflg.org ).
>
> If you install with Wine or Cedega, the installed *.bsa and *.esm files
> will carry the original file date of 2002 or 2003, which most plugins
> will automatically override (because the plugins were naturally created
> more recently than the original files).
>
> However, if you install the game and its expansion packs via Wine or
> Cedega,  the installation process will take about 15 hours
> (approximately 6 for Morrowind, 2.5 for Tribunal, and another 6 for
> Bloodmoon). This problem is common to both Wine and Cedega. Obviously no
> one is going to do that on a regular basis, or even once, really (even
> though I did, in order to document it, and to get the Registry entries
> for the program. I don't count, since I'm such an oddball).
>
> The loki installer takes some 15-30 minutes and works perfectly-- except
> that the extracted *.bsa and *.esm files seem to get the date you
> installed the game ("today"). Which means that-- since the Morrowind.ini
> is  usually set to
>
> > ;-1 Use raw data, 0 Use Newer, 1 use Archive Only
> > TryArchiveFirst=0
>
> use the 'newer' file when determining what graphic data to use to
> display the textures for rocks/trees/buildings/people/clothing/etc, any
> dedicated texture replacers (or plugins that want to replace selected
> original textures in the course of their operation) are just not going
> to work right, because the bsa archive is always going to be 'newer'
> (because it has a date of "today", when I installed the game) than the
> replacement files --which might have been packed and uploaded
> *yesterday*. But since WinRAR and all other native and non-native
> archive manangement programs that I've tried are (naturally) going to
> extract the plugin files without modifying the date of the archived
> files (and don't seem to have an option to change that, because it
> doesn't make much sense to want to do that in the first place)... the
> extracted archives are almost always going to have an 'earlier' date
> than the original game files, and be overridden by the original game
> files (which is not the way it's supposed to work).
>
> Now, what's weird is that this *did* work, but (as is traditional for
> me), I got a bit too tangled up in plugin conformance testing to know
> where the heck I was anymore, so I backed up the install, reinstalled,
> and started over, and suddenly my texture replacer isn't replacing
> textures anymore. The very idea of trying to debug the differences
> between the old install and the new is too horrifying to comtemplate.
> Plus, it's not to the point (as of yet, and hopefully it won't ever be).
>
> So what I need is a reasonable way for an 'average user' to fix this. On
> my personal system, because I have installed the "15-hour version"
> (which dates correctly) as well as the Loki install (which is what I'm
> actually playing), I can just copy the original *.bsa and *.esm files
> over the Loki-extracted ones (which I just thought of and which seems to
> work on paper), but I couldn't advise that to the general public.
>
> Having written all of this out, I can see that this is most properly
> fixed by the Loki installer script (which should not change dates when
> extracting the game files from the *.cab files, if it is in fact doing
> so), and I will post on their forums to request that change (since I
> can't get the script or archive or whatever it is open to change
> anything myself).
>
> However, since I have no way of knowing whether anyone there will
> actually give a hoot, or have time to fix it in a timely manner, what
> I'm looking for is a workaround.
>
> "Obviously", I could change the system date (to something like august
> 1st 2000) prior to installing using the Loki script, then change it
> back, but that's just 1) ugly; 2) dangerous. I wouldn't want to suggest
> that as a workaround, even if the HOW-TO never went past my own /docs
> folder.
>
> What I would like is a way to change the date of specific files to a
> specific date (in the past), without "changing" (editing) them, which is
> not an option with the original Morrowind files (or, if it is possible,
> it's only so with additional external tools and a whole lot of difficulty).
>
> Is this even possible to do? Now that I've said it "out loud", it
> doesn't sound like something Linux would want me to do at all, but
> perhaps there's some reason that server admins might need to do such a
> thing, in which case Linux definitely provides a way to do it.
>
> If it is not possible, or is unreasonably dangerous to explain on a
> public forum, can anyone think of an alternative solution, given the
> circumstances, until such time as the Loki installer is fixed (if in
> fact it needs to be fixed and the issue is not that my system is borked
> somehow)?
>
> Or is my system possibly borked somehow and these files are being
> incorrectly stamped due to something completely unrelated to the installer?
>
> Anyway, thanks for listening (if you did), and thanks for any ideas.
>
> Holly
>
> P.S. This all sounds very difficult and unpleasant-- and it is-- but,
> YES, Morrowind really is worth the trouble if you like RPGs. In this
> respect, it resembles The Sims (as a very difficult game to get the
> relatively useless base game installed and running at all and then the
> mods that make it all worthwhile running on top of it, nothing said
> about which expansions work and which dont, although apparently
> Superstar will crash the game at startup). It's next on my list of
> HOW-TOs, but I will say that The Sims Deluxe does install under Linux
> and run under some form of Wine (don't remember which atm, but I'm not
> touching my Sims install until I've got Morrowind working to my
> specifications). So for those of you who 1) read all this, 2) have ATI
> cards, and 3) want to play either of these games-- IT CAN BE DONE.
>
> And I promise to tell you how, if you guys help me over this hump.
>
> H.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> gentoo-user@g.o mailing list
>

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    Moshe Kaminsky <kaminsky@××××××××××××.il>
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