Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)

[Caveman Al Toraboran]

‐‐‐‐‐‐‐ Original Message ‐‐‐‐‐‐‐
On Saturday, July 18, 2020 10:28 PM, Ashley Dixon <ash@××××××××××.uk> wrote:

> This sociological position may be valid, but please understand that I was not
> suggesting you "don't insult" them. But placing a picture of a shit next to
> their project name based solely on the fact it is written in C++ instead of
> Python, does not cast your project (or you) in the greatest of lights.

i don't see the problem.  the unicode consortium
says the pile of sh*t is a normal character.

alternatively, i can replace the sh*t character by
a blown off leg, alongside the bjarne stroustrup
quote about c++.

> I'm not sure why you're so against C++ ? It is certainly not perfect, as it
> allows inherently poorly written code (Java, for example, tries to enforce good
> coding styles a bit more), but that is no reason to (quite literally) shit on
> any project/programmers using it. Having a quick review of the KeePassXC code-
> base, I can say with reasonable confidence, that it is written to a very
> professional standard.

i'm not universally against c++, but i'm against
it for a passwords manager, because it needlessly
re-invents many wheels including memory management
which is already done in other languages, such as
python.  and a passwords manager is too critical
to risk re-inventing such wheels.

and keepassxc is full of segfaults [1]

[1] https://github.com/keepassxreboot/keepassxc/issues?q=segfault

> That's OK. I have no problem with that, aside from not personally understanding
> it myself. However, the complete lack of capital letters does make your project
> look juvenile.

thanks.  that's a feature.  it's by design.  i
hope my writing style functions as repellent of
superficial ppl.

> However, I do have a rather significant issue with you calling those you dare to
> use the English language correctly "superficial" and "arrogant".

i didn't say that.  people are free to waste their
time by capitalizing what they want.  people are
also free to advise others on wat they think is
better.

but what i'm saying is different:  if someone
rejects my app simply because i don't capetalize
in my writings in README.md, then nothx don't use
my app.

> I'm not going
> to say too much here, as I don't want to get into an argument over something
> completely off-topic, but I strongly advise that you stop confusing "cool,
> quirky, and different" with "semantically incorrect".

you already did, but thx for advise.

> The best way to make your project stand out is to make it of exceptionally
> quality, usability, and stability. You really don't want the complete lack of
> spelling and grammar to be your entire project's unique claim-to-fame.

it's already more stable than keepassxc.  spelling
of README.md is unrelated.

nsapass is slightly over 400 lines of py code.
super easy to audit.  one doesn't need to guess
code reliability based on my spelling in
README.md.

alternatively, if my spelling in README.md is too
scary/offensive, people are free to use the
thousands of c++ lines of keepassxc code and
segfault away from me.

> The fact that a projecthas a build utility is a really, really poor vector of
> attack. If the build utility did not work, or was a virus, or anything other
> than a good build utility, then you may use that to discredit the project.However, criticising the mere existence of a few Makefiles and automated testing
> scripts is a monumentally BAD idea.

true, but that's not my point.  my point is the
increased complexity by itself, from an
occam-razorian point of view.

this is a logical consequence that follows once
you accept that every assumption has a positive
probability of error, by definition.

then fancier build setup is effectively equivalent
to requiring more assumptions.


> It turns out that they exist to aid the main code-base.

true, their main code-base system needs extra
assumptions in order to operate.

> C and C++ are certainly double-edged swords; I've been writing code in C since I
> was about twelve years of age. Fortunately, the nice thing about a double-edged
> sword is that one of the "edges" work in your favour. If you (over two-hundred-
> and-thirty individual contributors) work at ensuring the quality of a project
> over a period of seven years, in whatever language, it's very likely that few
> legs are to be lost.

true.  in some apps c/c++ is superior thanks to
performance or lower level system management.

> You're essentially saying that all C++ code is of poor quality. Do you honestly
> think that such an observation is correct ?

no.  thats a strawman.  you're ignoring the
context:  passwords manager.  i'm sayin, c++ is an
overkill for a passwords manager.

feel free to use c++ for lower level
things like a games engine that demands high
performance, in fact i'd recommend c/c++ for some
cases, such as a gaming engine, or stuff that need
high throughput/low latency.

but c++ for a passwords manager?  nothx, i don't
want to risk funny memory bugs around my dear
passwords.

> If people look at the image and don't read the text, then they will be
> misinformed.

i don't see where is the misinformation.  it's all
around occam's razor and characters approved by
the unicode consortium.

> I must say, this is probably the weirdest and most invalid method
> of attacking another project I've ever seen: the GitHub-generated distribution
> of languages ? Please do not take offence, but I cannot resist laughing while
> writing this; your method of advertising a product it is quite absurd.

dunno, imo it's just an honest, direct and
down-to-earth approach to express project's
stance.  if they disagree, they are free to put
"nsapass" around other unicode characters of their
choice.  the unicode consortium is generous.

i hope all open source projects adopt this style,
and stop being too serious about their apps.
because, imo, many devs or founders kinda act as
if they are some sacred space unicorns, or as if
their apps are "holy".

and, imo, this style is not new.  i think this is
how people in the open source community used to be
decades ago (before people got detached from
reality and started living in another imaginary
dimension with all the needlessly dramatic CoCs.
they probably watched too much twilight).

> If you want to be creative, invent a new algorithm or program that is
> indubitably superior to its predecessor, much like chip designers are doing
> today. People will appreciate and respect new, beneficial ideas much more than a
> few layers of free clip-art put together in GIMP.

not mutually exclusive, and 2nd part is strawman
(nsapass is more than layers of GIMP; the layers
of GIMP is only part of the README.md content for
honest and to the point dissemination of content).

> I am not trying to stifle your freedom of speech, but I am trying to convince
> you that it is important to provide a balanced analysis of previous
> technologies. Doing so will probably significantly aid the development of your
> program, as you can borrow ideas and build upon them.

thanks for trying.  highly appreciate your time
and efforts.  but tbh there is no way i see to
justify re-invented wheels in c++ for a passwords
manager.

> As a prominent Gentoo developer once told me, "you do need to take a different
> look at the world". You also need to understand the meaning of "freedom of
> speech", as this is something about which many of the younger generations are
> confused: I am not a Governmental organisation, I am not trying to detain you
> for your views, and your right to freedom of speech does not protect you from
> all critique.

looks like an appeal to authority.  plus that
gentoo dev's quote is wrong.

the key is not to have a "different" view.  the
key is to be open minded to explore different
views in order to discover the "correct" view,
then stick to it, while still being open to look
around.  but once you find the correct view, you
don't leave it for the sake of adopting a
different view.