Re: [gentoo-user] nsapass - alternative to keepassxc (and others)

[Ashley Dixon]

On Sat, Jul 18, 2020 at 04:30:22PM +0000, Caveman Al Toraboran wrote:
> i also agree with you that not expressing dislike
> towards an app may help me make new friends,
> because unfortunately we live in a time where
> people get triggered by almost anything.

I did not mention people getting "triggered", and certainly did  not  imply  it.
Before an unfortunate web-search, I did not even know the meaning of that  term.

> but imo there is another side to it: if we let
> fear take from us our right to express dislike
> towards an ``app'' then next generation people
> will have more buggy software.  do we want our
> children, or grand children, to have more bugs?
> 1st step starts here!

Yes.  I have a one-year-old daughter, and I have been telling her from  a  young
age to replace matured code-bases with four-hundred lines of Python coupled with
docs that look like they've been written by a victim  of  "shift-key-theft:  the
coolest of all crimes." (Professor, Futurama) ;-)

More seriously, your view of software development is quite severely warped. More
on this below.

> i also don't get why one shouldn't express his
> dislike towards an ``app''.  ``don't insult my
> app'' is now a thing?

You have reduced rational debate with KeePassXC's coding  styles  to  the  point
seen on your GitHub README.  I don't think it's still rational debate,  at  this
stage.

> imo if ppl keep advancing towards this direction,
> we'll end up getting detached from reality, and
> live in an abstract space where everyone is 100%
> happy despite the fact being 100% out of touch
> with reality (ultimately).

This sociological position may be valid, but please understand that  I  was  not
suggesting you "don't insult" them.  But placing a picture of  a  shit  next  to
their project name based solely on the fact it is  written  in  C++  instead  of
Python, does not cast your project (or you) in the greatest of lights.

I'm not sure why you're so against C++ ?  It is certainly  not  perfect,  as  it
allows inherently poorly written code (Java, for example, tries to enforce  good
coding styles a bit more), but that is no reason to (quite  literally)  shit  on
any project/programmers using it.  Having a quick review of the KeePassXC  code-
base, I can say with reasonable  confidence,  that  it  is  written  to  a  very
professional standard.

>> [Re: Usage (or lack thereof) of Capital Letters]

> that's fine.  i made this app to address a
> requirement of mine, then shared it in case it
> helps others.  if someone doesn't want to use my
> app that's fine.  i'd still use it regardless.

That's OK.  I have no problem with that, aside from not personally understanding
it myself.  However, the complete lack of capital letters does make your project
look juvenile.

> if someone is too superficial/arrogant and picks
> on unrelated issues (e.g. use of capitals), then
> tbh i may actually prefer him to not use my
> app.  so in a sense not using capitals is a
> feature.  superficial/arrogant people are sort of
> vandalizes as they occupy a communication channel
> only to end up wasting time in unproductive
> discussions.

However, I do have a rather significant issue with you calling those you dare to
use the English language correctly "superficial" and "arrogant".  I'm not  going
to say too much here, as I don't want to get into  an  argument  over  something
completely off-topic, but I strongly  advise  that  you  stop  confusing  "cool,
quirky, and different" with "semantically incorrect".

The best way to make your project stand out  is  to  make  it  of  exceptionally
quality, usability, and stability.  You really don't want the complete  lack  of
spelling and grammar to be your entire project's unique claim-to-fame.

>> [Re: GitHub Distribution of Languages]

> yeah, however, two points:
>
> (1) imo build utilities is still part of the app
>     since the app cannot run without them.  imo we
>     may call them ``build-time parts of the app'',
>     which will still affect the run-time of the
>     app.  so it is still a relevant indicator of
>     project's complexity imo.  otoh, nsapass uses
>     a single py file for everything, hence none of
>     that complexity.

The fact that a project _has_ a build utility is a really, really poor vector of
attack.  If the build utility did not work, or was a virus, or  _anything  other
than a good build utility_, then you may use  that  to  discredit  the  project.
However, criticising the mere existence of a few Makefiles and automated testing
scripts is a monumentally BAD idea.

It turns out that they exist to aid the main code-base.

> (2) my main reason for that is to show that they
>     are implemented mostly in c++ which is a nice
>     tool to lose a leg (as bjarne stroustrup puts
>     it).  so if it's 100% c++, then it's even
>     scarier.

C and C++ are certainly double-edged swords; I've been writing code in C since I
was about twelve years of age.  Fortunately, the nice thing about a double-edged
sword is that one of the "edges" work in your favour.  If you (over two-hundred-
and-thirty individual contributors) work at ensuring the quality  of  a  project
over a period of seven years, in whatever language, it's very  likely  that  few
legs are to be lost.

You're essentially saying that all C++ code is of poor quality.  Do you honestly
think that such an observation is correct ?

>> [Re: Usage of Arguably Ill-Chosen Clip-Art]

> (1) it makes it more efficient because a person
>     who looks at the image, and didnt' still read
>     much of the text, he'd be more likely to tell
>     from the graph that ``yeah complexity is bad''
>     (thanks to the clip arts).

If people look at the  image  and  don't  read  the  text,  then  they  will  be
misinformed.  I must say, this is probably the weirdest and most invalid  method
of attacking another project I've ever seen: the  GitHub-generated  distribution
of languages ?  Please do not take offence, but I cannot resist  laughing  while
writing this; your method of advertising a product it is quite absurd.

> (2) it's funny imo.  playfulness is a prerequisite
>     of creativity.  imo it's good to play around a
>     bit.  the opposite to it is "efficiency" i
>     guess?  if we operate in an efficient mode,
>     then we will are optimized for completing
>     paperwork-like tasks, but with much less
>     creativity.

If you want  to  be  creative,  invent  a  new  algorithm  or  program  that  is
indubitably superior to its predecessor, much  like  chip  designers  are  doing
today. People will appreciate and respect new, beneficial ideas much more than a
few layers of free clip-art put together in GIMP.

> (3) imo keepassxc's devs are too smart to be
>     emotionally hurt because random neckbeard in
>     the interwebs doesn't like their apps.

I don't know how smart the developers are, and you're correct that you shouldn't
really worry about "hurting their feelings" (as they're  probably  all  adults).
With my critique of your project's "image", I was talking less of  the  ways  in
which you annoy someone else, but to the  extents  to  which  your  comments  on
existing technologies reflect on your project.

> this video is not very related, but thought
> sharing it might help, since i think this problem
> is a special case of a much bigger problem, and a
> battle that we're losing generation after
> generation:
>
>     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtWrljX9HRA

I am not trying to stifle your freedom of speech, but I am  trying  to  convince
you  that  it  is  important  to  provide  a  balanced  analysis   of   previous
technologies.  Doing so will probably significantly aid the development of  your
program, as you can borrow ideas and build upon them.

As a prominent Gentoo developer once told me, "you do need to take  a  different
look at the world".  You also need to understand  the  meaning  of  "freedom  of
speech", as this is something about which many of the  younger  generations  are
confused: I am not a Governmental organisation, I am not trying  to  detain  you
for your views, and your right to freedom of speech does not  protect  you  from
all critique.

        Hope this helps,
        Ashley.

P.S.  I have not yet watched that Oxford Union video, but I will do when  I  get
some time. Cheers for the link; those speeches are generally interesting.

-- 

Ashley Dixon
suugaku.co.uk

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