Re: [gentoo-user] from Firefox52: NO pure ALSA?, WAS: Firefox 49.0 & Youtube... Audio: No

[Neil Bothwick]

On Sat, 17 Dec 2016 15:35:38 +0100, Heiko Baums wrote:

> Am 17.12.2016 um 14:17 schrieb Neil Bothwick:
>
> > I'm running the Debian 7 version of Raspbian on a number of Pis, all
> > without systemd. Yes, I am happy using systemd, but I can't be arsed
> > changing them when they continue to work perfectly well.
>
> Then explain me how this is done. Btw., Debian's and Raspbian's software
> repositories are somewhat outdated. But that's a different Debian
> related subject.

If you can't work that out for yourself, what are you doing running
Gentoo. I'm stating it can be done, I have neither the time nor the
inclination to document it.

> > Boot from a live CD, like Ubuntu, and read the journals. There's
> > always a solution that doesn't involve flaming.
>
> Why would I boot from a Live CD if I have a PC with an installed OS
> particularly just to be able to read some simple log files?
>
> So, no that's not a reasonable solution.

I never claimed it was reasonable, you asked for a way to read them if
you don't have systemd installed and I suggested a way. It takes seconds
to boot a VM from an Ubuntu ISO. No, it's not elegant, but it does solve
the problem. I do think a standalone reader for systemd journals would
be a nice idea, but I'm not going to code it and I'm certainly not going
to demand t as a right.
 
> And that doesn't have anything to do with flaming. But that's typical
> for those Poettering fanboys, too, since the beginning. They ask for
> "technical" arguments. If "technical" arguments are given to them, then
> those arguments suddenly are no technical arguments. Then this is
> flaming. And Poettering and his fanboys just insult their critics, even
> in the official "technical" systemd documentation.

Technical arguments as opposed to to the ad hominem arguments you prefer?

I am not a fanboy, I like some of the features of systemd while others
really annoy me. I run a several systems without systemd simply because I
see no point in changing a working system.

But if you intend to dismiss anyone with a standpoint that does not
precisely align with yours as a fanboy, there is no point in continuing
this discussion. I am sorry that the pointers I gave do not meet your
exacting standards and promise to refrain from doing so again.

> > When I first tried systemd, I wasn't confident of my ability to work
> > with the journal, so I installed syslog-ng and had traditional log
> > files alongside the journal. In fact I ran it like that for quite
> > some because the log monitor I was using didn't work with the
> > journal.
>
> Yes, that's the solution. Install an old very well tested and useful
> system logger which does the job perfectly on its own alongside of a
> crappy system logger just to be able to read the binary log files again
> with simple system tools which come along with EVERY distro like cat,
> less, grep etc. And running two programs which have the same purpose in
> the background don't need more system resources then just running one of
> them, particularly on hardware like the Pi?
>
> Did you and the other Poettering fanboys think about this logic? I guess
> not.

Excellent, adding distortion to the ad hominem insults. I was simply
pointing out that systemd does not preclude the use of an alternative
logger.
 
> > I never said it was easy.
>
> Should be easy.

Why? Because you demand so?


-- 
Neil Bothwick

Fragile. Do not turn umop ap1sdn!