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On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 11:13 AM, Norman Invasion |
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<invasivenorman@×××××.com> wrote: |
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> On 10 May 2012 14:01, Mark Knecht <markknecht@×××××.com> wrote: |
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>> On Thu, May 10, 2012 at 9:20 AM, Norman Invasion |
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>> <invasivenorman@×××××.com> wrote: |
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>>> On 9 May 2012 04:47, Dale <rdalek1967@×××××.com> wrote: |
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>>>> Hi, |
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>>>> |
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>>>> As some know, I'm planning to buy me a LARGE hard drive to put all my |
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>>>> videos on, eventually. The prices are coming down now. I keep seeing |
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>>>> these "green" drives that are made by just about every company nowadays. |
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>>>> When comparing them to a non "green" drive, do they hold up as good? |
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>>>> Are they as dependable as a plain drive? I guess they are more |
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>>>> efficient and I get that but do they break quicker, more often or no |
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>>>> difference? |
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>>>> |
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>>>> I have noticed that they tend to spin slower and are cheaper. That much |
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>>>> I have figured out. Other than that, I can't see any other difference. |
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>>>> Data speeds seem to be about the same. |
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>>>> |
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>>> |
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>>> They have an ugly tendency to nod off at 6 second intervals. |
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>>> This runs up "193 Load_Cycle_Count" unacceptably: as many |
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>>> as a few hundred thousand in a year & a million cycles is |
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>>> getting close to the lifetime limit on most hard drives. I end |
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>>> up running some iteration of |
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>>> # hdparm -B 255 /dev/sda |
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>>> every boot. |
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>>> |
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>> |
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>> Very true about the 193 count. Here's a drive in a system that was |
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>> built in Jan., 2010 so it's a bit over 2 years old at this point. It's |
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>> on 24/7 and not rebooted except for more major updates, etc. My tests |
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>> say the drive spins down and starts back up every 2 minutes and has |
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>> been doing so for about 28 months. IIRC the 193 spec on this drive was |
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>> something like 300000 max with the drive currently clocking in at |
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>> 700488. I don't see any evidence that it's going to fail but I am |
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>> trying to make sure it's backed up often. Being that it's gone >2x at |
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>> this point I will swap the drive out in the early summer no matter |
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>> what. This week I'll be visiting where the machine is so I'm going to |
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>> put a backup drive in the box to get ready. |
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>> |
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> |
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> Yes, I just learned about this problem in 2009 or so, & |
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> checked on my FreeBSD laptop, which turned out to be |
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> at >400000. It only made it another month or so before |
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> having unrecoverable errors. |
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> |
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> Now, I can't conclusively demonstrate that the 193 |
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> Load_Cycle_Count was somehow causitive, but I |
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> gots my suspicions. Many of 'em highly suspectable. |
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> |
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|
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It's part of the 'Wear Out Failure' part of the Bathtub Curve posted |
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in the last few days. That said, some Toyotas go 100K miles, and |
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others go 500K miles. Same car, same spec, same production line, |
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different owners, different roads, different climates, etc. |
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|
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It's not possible to absolutely know when any drive will fail. I |
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suspect that the 300K spec is just that, a spec. They'd replace the |
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drive if it failed at 299,999 and wouldn't replace it at 300,001. That |
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said, they don't want to spec thing too tightly, and I doubt many |
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people make a purchasing decision on a spec like this, so for the vast |
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majority of drives most likely they'd do far more than 300K. |
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|
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At 2 minutes per count on that specific WD Green Drive, if a home |
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machine is turned on for instance 5 hours a day (6PM to 11PM) then |
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300K count equates to around 6 years. To me that seems pretty generous |
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for a low cost home machine. However for a 24/7 production server it's |
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a pretty fast replacement schedule. |
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|
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Here's data for my 500GB WD RAID Edition drives in my compute server |
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here. It's powered down almost every night but doesn't suffer from the |
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same firmware issues. The machine was built in April, 2010, so it's a |
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bit of 2 years old. Note that it's been powered on less than 1/2 the |
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number of hours but only has a 193 count of 907 vs > 700000! |
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|
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Cheers, |
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Mark |
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|
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|
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c2stable ~ # smartctl -a /dev/sda |
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smartctl 5.42 2011-10-20 r3458 [x86_64-linux-3.2.12-gentoo] (local build) |
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Copyright (C) 2002-11 by Bruce Allen, http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net |
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|
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=== START OF INFORMATION SECTION === |
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Model Family: Western Digital RE3 Serial ATA |
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Device Model: WDC WD5002ABYS-02B1B0 |
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Serial Number: WD-WCASYA846988 |
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LU WWN Device Id: 5 0014ee 2042c3477 |
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Firmware Version: 02.03B03 |
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User Capacity: 500,107,862,016 bytes [500 GB] |
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Sector Size: 512 bytes logical/physical |
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Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] |
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ATA Version is: 8 |
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ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated |
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Local Time is: Thu May 10 11:45:45 2012 PDT |
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SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. |
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SMART support is: Enabled |
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|
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=== START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === |
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SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED |
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|
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General SMART Values: |
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Offline data collection status: (0x84) Offline data collection activity |
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was suspended by an |
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interrupting command from host. |
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Auto Offline Data Collection: Enabled. |
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Self-test execution status: ( 0) The previous self-test routine completed |
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without error or no self-test has ever |
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been run. |
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Total time to complete Offline |
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data collection: ( 9480) seconds. |
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Offline data collection |
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capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. |
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Auto Offline data collection |
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on/off support. |
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Suspend Offline collection upon new |
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command. |
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Offline surface scan supported. |
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Self-test supported. |
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Conveyance Self-test |
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supported. |
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Selective Self-test supported. |
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SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before |
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entering |
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power-saving mode. |
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Supports SMART auto save |
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timer. |
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Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. |
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General Purpose Logging |
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supported. |
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Short self-test routine |
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recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. |
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Extended self-test routine |
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recommended polling time: ( 112) minutes. |
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Conveyance self-test routine |
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recommended polling time: ( 5) minutes. |
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SCT capabilities: (0x303f) SCT Status supported. |
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SCT Error Recovery Control |
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supported. |
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SCT Feature Control supported. |
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SCT Data Table supported. |
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|
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SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 |
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Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: |
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ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE |
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UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE |
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1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x002f 200 200 051 Pre-fail |
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Always - 0 |
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3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0027 239 235 021 Pre-fail |
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Always - 1050 |
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4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age |
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Always - 935 |
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5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 200 200 140 Pre-fail |
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Always - 0 |
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7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x002e 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Always - 0 |
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9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 091 091 000 Old_age |
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Always - 7281 |
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10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age |
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Always - 0 |
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11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age |
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Always - 0 |
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12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age |
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Always - 933 |
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192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Always - 27 |
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193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Always - 907 |
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194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 106 086 000 Old_age |
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Always - 41 |
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196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Always - 0 |
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197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Always - 0 |
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198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0030 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Offline - 0 |
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199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Always - 0 |
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200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0008 200 200 000 Old_age |
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Offline - 0 |