Re: [gentoo-user] Debian just voted in systemd for default init system in jessie

[Gevisz]

On Fri, 21 Feb 2014 09:02:31 -0500
Tanstaafl <tanstaafl@×××××××××××.org> wrote:

> On 2014-02-20 10:36 PM, Mark David Dumlao <madumlao@×××××.com> wrote:
> > On Thu, Feb 20, 2014 at 8:53 PM, Tanstaafl
> > <tanstaafl@×××××××××××.org> wrote:
> >> Sorry, Canek, no offense was intended, but if you go back and
> >> re-read your 'extremely overly enthusiastic' post (this plus the
> >> content is why I referred to it as a 'rant'), while I agree with
> >> most everything you said, your primary point - that it should be
> >> the people who *don't* want systemd doing all of the work - was
> >> backwards, and that was what I wanted to point out.
>
> > I'm afraid this is the part that's backwards.
>
> You are wrong.
>
> >> So, please, don't take it as an insult. In fact you have done a
> >> very good job of patiently spelling out the advantages of systemd,
> >> to the point I'm no longer afraid of it taking over and devouring
> >> the linux world.
>
> > If systemd truly is, as you say "taking over and devouring the
> > linux world"
>
> *I* never said that. Others have though, and some still apparently
> believe this to be the case. Admittedly it is those voices that
> prompted me to start this thread.

Do you hear voices? :-)

> I wanted to get opinions from other
> list members about how systemd is/will/should impact the gentoo
> community, and I'm glad I did. The result is that I now no longer
> believe most of the negatives being spread about systemd, and no
> longer fear that it is 'taking over and devouring the linux world'.
>
> > such that the majority of distro maintainers are individually
> > choosing to use a feature or two from it, then yes, it definitely is
> > the job of  people who want to opt out of it to do the work.
>
> You would be right IF - and I repeat IF - it weren't for the little
> inconvenient fact that OpenRC, not systemd, is the default init
> system in gentoo, now, and thankfully for the foreseeable future. I
> say thankfully not because I fear systemd, but because I would much
> prefer to let systemd mature with others using it to flesh out any
> bugs or other problems/issues (technical *and* political).
>
> As long as OpenRC is the default init system in Gentoo, it is on
> those who want something *other* than OpenRC (ie, systemd) to do the
> work of implementing it.
>
> Why is it so difficult to see that?
>
> Even Canek already acknowledged the correctness of this position.
>
> >> Bottom line: since Gentoo's default and primary init system is (and
> >> hopefully will be for a very long time) OpenRC, it is on the
> >> systemd folks to do the work to get systemd fully supported.
>
> > systemd IS supported and working. The problem arises when there are
> > people that want to push for a "system with no systemd whatsoever"
> > and act like it's the systemd maintainer's job to make that happen.
>
> Thankfully there is no problem then, since no one is pushing for 'a
> system with no systemd whatsoever', beyond what exists already.
>
> All I am interested in is keeping the systemd proponents in their
> place. As the 'new kid on the block', when 'invading' (for lack of a
> better term) a new distro (in this case, gentoo), it is *on them* to
> provide the methods and means for people interested in trying/using
> systemd on said distro, but most importantly to do so *without*
> impacting existing users who want to continue using the *existing*,
> *default* init system for their distro.
>
> Are you seriously disagreeing with this position?
>