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Frank Steinmetzger wrote: |
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> Am Wed, Mar 15, 2023 at 07:45:25AM -0500 schrieb Dale: |
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>> Mark Knecht wrote: |
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>>>> Another question. My rig is getting a bit aged. I have a AMD FX-8350 8 |
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>>>> core CPU running at 4GHz. I also have 32GBs of memory. I've read that |
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>>>> Intel currently has the best bang for buck on CPUs nowadays. I'm open |
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>>>> to the idea of switching. As far as speed goes, if I built a new rig |
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>>>> that is using a reasonably cost CPU and memory, would I see any real |
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>>>> improvements? |
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>>> I think it all depends on what you're going to use the machine for and |
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>>> whether you really use all your CPU for extended periods of time. |
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> This! My mini PC with its passive 10 W Celeron N5100 is enough for desktop |
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> use, including encrypted storage. But maybe not for Gentoo. :) |
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> |
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>>> […] |
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>>> PixInsight has a benchmark program built in and all the results |
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>>> are open to look at: |
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>>> |
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>>> https://pixinsight.com/benchmark/index.php?sort=cpu&os=all |
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>>> |
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>>> Interestingly I didn't find your processor even on the list |
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> That’s probably because the FX processors are ooooold. Old and hungry. ^^ |
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> |
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>> Sometimes a CPU that costs $500 can only be just a fraction faster than a |
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>> $200 CPU. |
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> That’s still the case today for those impatient gamer enthusiasts who are |
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> after the “longest bars” [in benchmarks]. The same goes for power |
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> consumption. With Zen 4, AMD of course launched the fastest X-processors |
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> first with a gargantuan power demand. A few months later the non-X were |
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> released. They used 40 % or so less power at a performance cost of maybe 10 |
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> % (not actual numbers, but figuratively speaking from memory). |
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> |
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>> Given that my rig, as you point |
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>> out, sits here and waits on me to do something most of the time, that's |
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>> a lot of money for something I won't see much time savings on. I might |
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>> add tho, I do sometimes convert videos from 1080p to 720p. That makes |
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>> the CPU max out pretty good. Compiling Libreoffice, Firefox etc also |
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>> maxes out the CPU but those are what, once a month or so??? |
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> Intel and AMD are giving themselves quite a race these days about who offers |
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> more bang for the buck, or rather, more bang. In the past, Intel used to |
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> have more to offer at the lower end (below 100 € CPUs, like Pentiums and |
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> i3’s, while AMD was milking the market with high-end chips due to their |
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> limited manufacturing capacities). |
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> |
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> If you want to save money and aim for a low-cost AMD APU (processor with |
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> integrated graphics), you can get an older 3000-series Ryzen for a two-digit |
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> price. It’ll still be much faster than your old FX at a fraction of the |
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> power consumption. Like the 4300G, which is twice as fast for half the |
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> electricity. With today’s processors, basically none of the socktetable |
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> models are too slow unless you have specific performance requirements. |
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> |
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> With each generation, the architecture becomes more efficient, meaning more |
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> instructions per cycle, lower consumption and so on. The max frequency is |
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> not really the driving force behind performance increase anymore due to |
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> efficiency issues at higher frequencies. |
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> |
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> Here are some benchmark comparisons from cpubenchmark.net: |
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> |
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> Processor year power cores single-core score multi-core score |
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> FX-8350 2012 125 W 8/8 1580 6026 |
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> i5-4590 2014 84 W 4/4 2086 5356 |
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> i5-10400 2020 65 W 6/12 2580 12258 |
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> R3 4300G 2020 65 W 4/8 2557 11017 |
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> R5 5600G 2021 65 W 6/12 3185 19892 |
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> R5 7600X 2022 145 W 6/12 4213 28753 |
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> |
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> Sources: |
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> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html#desktop-thread |
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> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+FX-8350+Eight-Core&id=1780 |
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> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-4590+%40+3.30GHz&id=2234 |
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> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=Intel+Core+i5-10400+%40+2.90GHz&id=3737 |
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> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+3+4300G&id=3808 |
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> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+5600G&id=4325 |
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> https://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu.php?cpu=AMD+Ryzen+5+7600X&id=5033 |
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> |
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> You can see the increase in performance. My old i5-4590, at half the cores, |
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> can keep up with your FX, even though it is only 1½ years younger. Ryzens |
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> used to be more efficient in multi workloads (look at the 2020 entries). But |
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> I’m not too sure about current generations due to Intel’s big-little |
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> concept. |
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> DDR5 and PCIe5 have higher requirements at signal quality, making the boards |
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> and components much more expensive (and, again, more power hungry). That’s |
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> why, even though DDR4 platforms are on their way out technologically, they |
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> are still an economically sound choice. |
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> |
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>> I was also wondering what a mobo/CPU/memory combo would cost nowadays. |
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>> Maybe someone who recently built a decent rig recalls how much they paid |
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>> for those three. I don't go cheap on power supply but I don't require a |
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>> lot for a video card or anything. Some spend half their money on a |
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>> video card alone but I just don't need anything that fancy. |
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> Any current Intel non-F CPU (F means no graphics) can cover your graphics |
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> need. Finally, AMD caught up and started shipping a minimal graphics chip in |
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> all of their processors with Zen 4, but as I said, that platform is still |
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> expensive. |
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> |
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>> I got a Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 that drives both my monitor and my TVs |
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>> through a splitter and it does just fine. |
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> How cute. This should be about twice as fast as the integrated graphics in |
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> my 8-year-old i5. So you’ll be fine with *any* integrated graphics (which |
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> will also cut down on idle consuption, compared with a dGPU). |
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> |
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>> This is some good info tho. Maybe someone who built a rig recently can |
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>> chime in on costs, US dollar would be nice. ;-) |
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> As mentioned, DDR5 is still expensive. With DDR4 platforms getting older, |
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> their prices are going down. The Ryzen 5 5600G is an excellent and efficient |
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> processor (it’s basically a laptop chip in a desktop socket) and currently |
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> can be had for around 125 € (including taxes of course, not sure about US |
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> prices). It has over twice the single- and thrice the multi-core performance |
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> of your FX chip. Its graphics are way overkill for you, but you never know. |
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> ;-) |
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> If you want to keep yout GPU, there’s also the Ryzen 5 5500, it has no |
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> graphics and is only minutely slower than the 5600G, but can be had for less |
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> than 100 €. |
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> |
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> |
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> So, in summary (talking German consumer prices, meaning all taxes included, |
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> but I think you can assume very similar $ pricse) for a not too fancy¹ system: |
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> |
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> Processor 120 € (or up top 150 € for a current i3/i5) |
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> RAM 60 € 32 GB DDR4 (cheap RAM, low latency costs more, but has no real use |
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> for your use case) |
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> Board 100..120 € depending on I/O needs and quality. |
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> |
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> Going DDR5 means an increase in budget by at least 100 € for a 32 GB system. |
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> |
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> |
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> ¹ As far as I can see, compiling packages is the most taxing thing you do, |
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> which is why I don’t see you needing a big-rig processor. (Though I |
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> understand the nice feeling you get from having one.) |
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> |
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This is all good info. I went to Tom's Hardware and found their list by |
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computing power. I try to find a generic power rating since what I use |
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my rig for is more generic. No need looking at a chart for gaming. |
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;-) Anyway, I was looking at a somewhat costly Ryzen 7 5800x3d or a |
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Ryzen 7 7700. I need to look at the details because I like having my |
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own video card. That way I can use Nvidia but switch to something else |
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if the need should arise. Plus, if the video stops working, replace |
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card instead of whole mobo. I also have to have two outputs. One for |
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desktop, one for TV. Based on your info tho, I could go down more in |
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price and still have a much better CPU than the current one. |
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|
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One other thing, the mobos I keep finding have few PCIe slots. Some |
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have 2 maybe 3. That's getting to be to few for me. I have a ethernet |
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card, SATA expansion card plus a couple other things in mine that I |
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use. Then my next thing, a case. The cases I find have a ton of |
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lights, which I hate, but as far as layout and such, they suck. Some |
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cost a arm and leg and they are worthless to me. I found one the other |
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day that is fairly plain, holds 8 or 10 hard drives and has reasonably |
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good cooling. I'm hoping I can get it. I don't think even Cooler |
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Master makes a case like what I got anymore. I need more drive space |
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but I love the cooling of my current case. The fans don't spin very |
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fast but they move a LOT of air, quietly. |
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|
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Usually I look forward to building a new rig. Trying to find things I |
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like takes the fun out of it. I'll get there tho. Eventually. |
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Thanks for all the info. It helps me to know if I build a new rig, I |
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will see a benefit speed wise. I want to get something out of it. lol |
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|
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Dale |
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|
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:-) :-) |