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As soon as I saw this thread I knew it was trouble. I was able to |
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resist posting for the first couple of days - I do wish I had |
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maintained this restraint. |
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|
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|
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On 19 Jul 2007, at 00:48, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote: |
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> if somebody buys locked hardware, it is his own freaking fault. Or |
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> could |
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> ANYBODY claim to be surprised by say Tivo? |
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|
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Apparently some people legitimately were: |
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|
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On 18 Jul 2007, at 17:15, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote: |
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> That's because you *could* swap out the software on early TiVos. |
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|
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>> b) I never said Linus didn't own a Tivo himself. |
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>> What I said was that he might see things differently were |
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>> "Tivotisation" to _cost him personally_ time, inconvenience, |
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>> frustration and expense. |
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> |
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> if that would be the case he would not have bought a Tivo... |
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|
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I didn't bring up Tivo, it was someone else who did so in response to |
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me. |
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|
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You're clearly not grasping my point, so I'm sorry for not making it |
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more clearly. |
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I can't imagine you might be ignoring my point just for the sake of |
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arguing. ;) |
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|
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My reference to Linus changing his mind was in reference to him |
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hypothetically going out and with his own money buying some Product_X |
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(not a Tivo!!) which was shipped running Linux, which didn't perform |
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quite as he expected and which he subsequently & UNEXPECTEDLY found |
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he was unable to fix because it would only run his software if the |
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binaries were signed with some secret cryptographic key. |
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I imagine him crying "They're using the operating system _I_ wrote to |
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lock me out of _my own_ hardware?!?!?!?" |
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|
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Discussing Tivos at this stage isn't conducive to constructive |
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discussion because we're all familiar with that particular brand. |
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|
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My own personal experience is with an ADSL modem-router which is |
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locked to a specific internet service provider. At the time I bought |
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this model <http://groups.google.com/group/uk.telecom.broadband/msg/ |
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e94af4c1a93bad18> there was very little written on the internet about |
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it being locked to the vendor's network - I guess it was perhaps just |
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a year old and that few owners of the router would have reached the |
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end of their 1-year minimum contract with the ISP (although they |
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could legitimately have sold the router on within that year and used |
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a USB ADSL modem instead). |
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|
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It was only having bought the device that I discovered this problem |
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and I didn't even know it ran Linux until I subsequently started |
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analysing its firmware (I believe the vendor may have breached the |
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"keep intact all notices" part of clause 4 of the GPL, but that's |
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aside). After I found the device worked at my friends' house using |
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their Wanadoo username & password (but not at my own house on my ISP) |
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I searched extensively and found only a couple of references to the |
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locking after some considerable searching. So it clearly was not my |
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expectation that the device would be locked and it's hardly |
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reasonable to assume I might have expected it - the practice of |
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giving away "free" wireless routers with ISP contracts was far less |
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common in the UK at the time. |
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|
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I'm not trying to blame Wanadoo or you or Linus or anyone for my |
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mistake in this matter - I'm merely trying to illustrate how easily |
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one could find oneself in possession of locked hardware running open- |
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source code. |
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|
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If you retain your opinion on these matters having found yourself in |
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such a position then I'll concede that you're a man considerably more |
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charitable than I. |
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|
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My hypothetical situation of Linus personally expending time, |
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frustration and expense is clearly a mere literary illustration. |
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Considering that his Red Hat and VA Linux stock options bring Linus' |
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net worth to $20 million or so and manufacturers line up to gift him |
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dual-processor G5s it's unlikely that an £80 router is going to cause |
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him the same dismay it would to a single mother on minimum wage who |
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unexpectedly found herself that much out of pocket. |
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|
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> and why does a temper proof box cause you 'frustration'? |
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|
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Because I'm unable to use a device I purchased in a way it might |
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reasonably be expected to be used. |
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|
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>> The active part of the last sentence is "when needed" |
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> |
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> and when do you 'need' to hack a tivo? |
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|
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When your subscription expires? I assume that the Tivo subscription |
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is only for the TV schedules and there are now plenty of alternative |
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free sources for those. You might well wish to run MythTV on your set- |
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top box - why shouldn't one do that? The user does, after all, own |
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the hardware. |
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|
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> And telling someone what he can do with HIS hardware is |
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> just wrong. |
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|
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I hope you appreciate the irony of this statement. |
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|
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Stroller. |
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|
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-- |
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