Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Anyone switched to eudev yet? -> what was wron with SysVInit?

[Kevin Chadwick]

> * Finally, and what I think is the most fundamental difference between
> systemd and almost any other init system: The service unit files in
> systemd are *declarative*; you tell the daemon *what* to do, not *how*
> to do it. If the service files are shell scripts (like in
> OpenRC/SysV), everything can spiral out of control really easily. And
> it usually does (again, look at sshd; and that one is actully nicely
> written, there are all kind of monsters out there abusing the power
> that shell gives you).
>

> Then Kevin started to suggest that I know nothing about init systems,
> and I responded in kind.

I did not and apologise if you took offense. I said perhaps badly that
based on this posting, you don't have a great deal of experience in
init systems. To me, your comment demonstrated that you don't on the
vast plethora of init systems which all actually accomplish the same
thing daemon wise just with varying reliability and functionality
surrounding the process of doing so. No init system can tell a daemon
how to do anything.

So your comment.

What to do, how to do actually has nothing to do with systemd.

What does is having to learn a new more restrictive non
intuitive and non externally useful or non universal *declarative*
language. Like polkit/pkexecs javascript vs sudo. I will take sudoers
every time and for good reason.

"Shell scripts usually spiral out of control" is just utter FUD. I
do realise you didn't originate this FUD, but it shouldn't be
spread. Yes some corner case wants in init that some thought
impossible in shell can get complex by scripting them but a small c
tool following the unix philosophy simply becomes a shell command
potentially useful in even unforeseeable cases.

We are dealing with simple options meant for admins here. As I said
OpenBSDs scripts are usually rediculously simple and should often
really be called commands. As others have said the argument of function
being in the scripts rather than the daemon is an irrelevance to using
systemd. Systemd may try to become the whole OS but I'm fairly sure it
hasn't plagiarised the c code to check and deal with ssh keys yet. That
is rightly the job of the aptly named ssh-keygen and IMO some very
simple shell code.

The arch sshd script is only 44 lines and includes more than that to
make the output colourful. The gentoo sshd script is actually simple
too and doesn't do anything most of the time and is easily modifiable
in absolutely predictable ways.

-- 
_______________________________________________________________________

'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work
together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a
universal interface'

(Doug McIlroy)
_______________________________________________________________________