Re: [gentoo-user] Re: Install PreQualifying Matrix

[Dale]

James wrote:
> Dale <rdalek1967 <at> gmail.com> writes:
>
>
>> James wrote:
>>>  What I really would appreciate is some feedback on the Planning
>>> Questions listed below, as to help folks organized their thoughts and
>>> hardware details BEFORE actually performing an install or test-drive.
>
>>> Many/most of these options exist
>>>         Install PreQualifying Matrx::QUESTIONS
>>>         Live Testdrive options before installation(usb/cd/dvd)::
>>>         Intended Usage (workstation/server/device/)
>>>         Hardware or Vitual installation::
>>>         PC mobo or tablet/embedded/device::
>>>         Processor/Ram characteristics::
>>>         MBR vs (u)EFI (type of mobo)::
>>>         Single or Multi or RAID disk configuration::
>>>         OpenRC or Systemd::
>>>         Grub1 vs Grub2 or other boot-semantics::
>>>         File System type(s)::
>> Hope other will also share and help give you ideas.
>> Dale
>
> Hello Dale,
>
> Acutally answering the question, with comments is a good
> idea.
>
> But what I had in mind, that is much more pressing
> is a list of additional questions, or
> re-ordering the questions
> or re-stating the quesions
> or matrix logic on the causal relationships between
> these quesions and other questions
> as to conclusion of valid install options
> is more of what I had in mind.
>
>
> Once that is reasoably vetted then
> I would look for some statisical inferences
> on the actual answers to these quetions
>
> as well as valid install links
> like sabayon for gentoo(ish) systemd
> like calculate-linus for gentoo(ish)openrc
> like pentoo for gentoo-penetration systems
> like zentoo for gentoo CI systems
> Like funtoo as an option install
> like gentooliveUSB   for a gentoo + persistence experience.
>
>
> I think this sort of approach will take some stress off of the
> gentoo-user list and handbook whilst Blueness brings maturity
> to his efforts; he alreayd has lilblue, tinhat and tor-ramdisk
> gentoo installs, so he is one of those guys that can single-handedly
> solve this crisis: should he put his fingers to the task.
> MaffBlaster has been very quite of late.....
>
> Blueness is a wonderful and collegial type of dev
> and is currently seeking input on his 'alpha' ideas::
>
> https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:RelEng_GRS
>
>
> THANKS!
> James
>
>

So this is to create a installer then?  Someone built a installer a long
time ago and it didn't work well.  Heck, I never could get the thing to
even complete the install and that was IF it would boot at all to even
start the process.  It would hang somewhere and then sit there doing
nothing.  After that, I found a installer to be useless and a waste of
time.  I wasn't alone on that point either.  Not long after that, the
installer project died.  The current handbook, it works. 

This is the issue as I see it.  A few people want a installer to make
Gentoo easier to install.  Well, why?  After you install Gentoo, you
have to update, maintain and maybe repair that install.  A installer
isn't going to do that unless you wait for a new version of the
installer and re-install/update sort of like windoze does.  Basically,
you are going to need what is learned during the install to
maintain/repair your system and that is just the start of it.  It's that
simple. 

Another issue with having a installer.  People install Gentoo with the
installer, if it works, and are basically completely clueless about
Gentoo and the effort it takes to run it.  I'd be surprised if even a
small percentage that used the last installer are still using Gentoo. 
People use the installer, find out that Gentoo isn't a point n click
distro, get pissed because they actually have to work at it and then
they switch to something else.  Does that benefit Gentoo?  Not likely. 

Gentoo can be a pain and most people don't want that because they don't
want to put any real effort into their OS.  When I install Linux for
someone else, I put some sort of Ubuntu or something that they can
handle.  Putting Gentoo on a system and expecting them to handle updates
would be . . . well . . . silly.  It would be a setup for failure.  If
someone wanted to run Gentoo on their puter, I'd sit with them while
they went through the install, with them doing the work and learning. 

Before I first installed Gentoo way back in 2003, I did my research.  I
researched my hardware, all sorts of options and read the handbook
several times.  It took me a few tries to get it right but I did.  I
don't recall asking anyone for help during that install process.  I just
followed the handbook and learned from the few mistakes I made.  Later
on, I learned how to customize things to suite my needs.  When I built
my new rig a few years ago, I sat down, figured out what I wanted to use
and adjusted the install process to suite that.  That effort was on me
not someone else.  If I want to use LVM, RAID, BTRFS or something else
that isn't included in the default install handbook, it's on me to
figure out where to insert that part of my install.  When a person has
used Linux for a while, they tend to learn about that sort of thing. 
Gentoo will pretty much make sure you do. 

While I could care less if someone creates a installer, I'm not going to
use it.  I also won't recommend that someone new to Gentoo use it
either.  If a person needs a installer to get a OS installed, they
really need something besides Gentoo.  I doubt they are going to be
happy in the end.  That doesn't even touch all the new users that are
clueless coming here and the forums with the same questions that would
be answered if they went through the manual install process.  I recall
that back then too. 

Just my opinion.

Dale

:-)  :-)