Re: [gentoo-user] Re: [OT] How to be a penguin.

[Dale]

Alan Grimes wrote:
> Gregory Woodbury wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, May 28, 2016 at 4:53 PM, Neil Bothwick <neil@××××××××××.uk
>> <mailto:neil@××××××××××.uk>> wrote:
>>
>>     On Sat, 28 May 2016 21:54:09 +0200, Volker Armin Hemmann wrote:
>>
>>     > thanks a lot. My eyes are bleeding.
>>
>>     Serves you right for being daft enough to read it again!
>>
>>     I'd suggest that Alan RTFM for the commands he uses, but that
>>     would be a
>>     waste of keystrokes.
>>
>>
>> I have to agree with ng0
>>
>> WOW!
>>
>> Alan just wants to start it and walk away, as if Gentoo was a binary
>> distribution
>> that handles it all upstream.  He doesn't want to take the time to
>> review what
>> emerge is proposing and see if changes are needed first.
> You know what? fuck you.  That's what.
>
> The update list it's proposing is 403 packages, or roughly 25% of my
> system.
>
> Packages are being updated at such a breakneck pace these days that it
> simply isn't humanly possible to review these manually, or even do
> anything intelligent if I tried. Back in the golden age, for about ten
> years even! my approach to updating my system worked great. Then emerge
> got ornery and stopped letting the necessary, cathartic, inevitable,
> trainwreck take place, which is actually a good thing because the
> partial-good, update which seems nightmarish on first analysis,
> ***ACTUALLY CORRECTS ITSELF WHEN THE SCRIPT IS RUN REPEATEDLY UNTIL NO
> PROBLEMS REMAIN AND THE SYSTEM IS PRISTINE AND GOOD FOR REBOOT***. I
> have done this happily many many many many times. It actually works that
> way and I was gleefully singing gentoo's praise for many years.
>
> No, the penguins seem to think it is possible to get it perfect on the
> first iteration. It's not. It's not just that there are a handful of
> packages that just won't work no matter what, it's just that it is
> sometimes necessary to let a bootstrapping process take place. This
> actually works if you don't use such draconian checking.

So, you still think it is emerge that is the problem and not your script
which everyone that has seen it says is the wrong way to do a update?  ROFL

I did a emerge -e  world not to long ago.  Out of the over 1,000
packages on here, I only had one failure.  Just one. 

>> Hey Alan: Gentoo is NOT a start an update and walk away setup. Some human
>> mind needs to be involved if troubles arise.  Also, read make.conf(5)
>> and set up
>> the various variables correctly; PYTHON_SINGLE_TARGET should only have
>> one python version set.
> DO YOU SERIOUSLY THINK I'M THAT STUPID??? SERIOUSLY????

Do you really want a answer to that?  Seriously?  You asked so I guess
you do.  Here it is.  Yes!  lol  The way you do things, and continue to
do things, even after having several VERY experienced users tell you
that the way you are doing things is wrong pretty much says it all.  If
I post that I was doing something and getting a bad result and someone
such as Neil and/or Alan McKinnon tells me I am doing it wrong, you can
bet your last dollar that I am about to change how I do things.  Why, if
either or both of them tell me I am doing something wrong, I'm doing it
wrong.  If I continue to do things the same way, well, that would be my
fault not members of this list or emerge/portage.  So far, I don't
recall seeing a single post that supports how your script is set up. 
Not one, except you of course. 

>
>> Furthermore, the current portage doesn't require the revdep-rebuild
>> step because
>> of the @preserved-rebuild set creation.
> That missfeature is incompatible with how I use my system. I have not
> reformatted my hard drive in six years.
>
> The principle way I accomplish that is by prohibiting the growth of
> cruft in the system. I cannot tolerate the accumulation of back versions
> anywhere in the system except where absolutely necessary. So if it is
> possible to re-build broken packages against new versions, I demand that
> take place
> as quickly as possible such that the system is left in the most pristine
> and self-consistent state possible. --- secret of immortality, dude. =\
>
> Gentoo used to be superlatively excellent at that.
>
>> In any case, to try and force things through without looking at what
>> problems are occuring
>> is just (excuse my language) batshit crazy stupid.
> You
> dumb.
> shit.
>
> You literally have no fucking clue do you?

Thing is, it would seem to me that others on this list do have a clue
and have tried several times to explain that to you.  The person who
doesn't have a clue is the one that comes here complaining about
problems that no one else here has. 


>
> Do you think I enabled that missfeature they introduced a few years ago
> that hid all of the build output so all I got to see was
>
> installing package (1/400)
> installing package (2/400)
> installing package (3/400)
>
> I am typing this on my smaller monitor because I have the full verbose
> build process fullscreen on my 24". That's right, for the last 12 years,
> I have watched every single build take place in live time because I've
> watched it execute every single compiler invocation, I have watched
> every error and warning message.
>
> I do not need log files because I watch everything in live time. By
> doing this, I have learned things about my packages that you fucking
> dipshits couldn't imagine. Back before when Gentoo jumped the shark
> (tried to force everyone onto libav), the system was completely
> self-correcting, If the system set was intact, literally every other
> problem would self correct. I didn't need to rant on this list because
> everything was perfect.
>
> The problem is that the portage people don't understand how the packages
> actually work or what happens when these stupid, recently implemented
> checks are disabled and emerge is run iteratively.
>

Here's a idea.  Since YOU are the only one having this problem, why
don't YOU change what you are doing to something that actually works? 
What you are doing doesn't work.  Try something else.  Funny how those
"stupid" checks work for everyone else. 


>> I use my update generator script so make the emerge command(s) just so
>> I can preview the packages and modify the sequences or leave out some
>> updates
>> if i need/want to do so. (E.g. I may want to defer a chromium or
>> libreoffice update
>> to after other updates are done and/or set them to occur with a lower
>> niceness or
>> an ionice idle class.)
> It wouldn't let me do that because it was throwing a conflict message
> for libreoffice so I was forced to temporarily uninstall it to clear a
> block message, fuck you again portage...
>
>

Sure. 

May I suggest something.  If you want to automate the upgrade process,
why don't you ask for others to post how THEY do their updates?  Your
way is a disaster and it won't get any better until YOU change what you
are doing.  When I run into a problem, I ask for help and then others
give me ideas on how to do things better.  I been using Gentoo since
about 2003.  I've hit the occasional bump in the road but the way you do
things, it's just not going to work.   Ask anyone here, I can run into
some strange things at times but my process works about 99% of the
time.  It does so because over the years I have found the method that
works best.   More importantly, I've adapted to what emerge/portage
expects from me. 

I mentioned this before.  If you keep posting but then refuse to accept
help, people will start ignoring or blocking your messages.  Based on
the posts that I see, I suspect some may have already.  At some point,
even I will.  I've only ever blocked one other person on this list.  I
can see that doubling at some point because you don't come here for help
or accept any when it is given.  You just come here to gripe about
things not working like you want when it is your method that is broken. 

Either change how you do things or expect to keep running into the same
problems you are now.  If you don't change, neither will what you get
from portage/emerge.  This is about as nice as I know how to put it. 

Dale

:-)  :-)